|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : nzj|
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 3000|
msl bound upper : 4400
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : sna|
tower : slc
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng|
|Flight Phase||climbout : intermediate altitude|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 200|
flight time total : 2100
flight time type : 100
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||other anomaly other|
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : detected after the fact|
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||Pilot Deviation|
On the last leg of the day we were leaving orange county for palm springs. It was the captain's leg to fly. While I was preparing the cabin the captain was obtaining the clearance. As we taxied out, a relatively short distance, I was busied with my responsibilities of determining takeoff power, speeds, passenger briefing, and checking for clearance along the dimly lit ramp and txwys. Holding short of the runway and running the checklist I noted the 1200 code in the transponder and the response was a VFR departure. I presumed the captain had declined the prefiled IFR flight plan for a VFR flight. Having been on line only 1 month I had flown with several capts, each of which had their own ways of working with the system--VFR climbs, VFR on top, etc. Since I knew we would remain well south and east of the la TCA, and climbing to 11000', I saw nothing illegal with this, however unorthodox. After departure the tower suggested our discretion, approach control on a specific frequency for VFR advisories. I was handling the radios and acknowledged the change. The radio on the captain's side is normally set by the captain. When he failed to change frequency, or chose not to, I took that to mean that he did not want VFR service. At the time a sterile cockpit was being observed and the captain seemed somewhat busy with flying the airplane. I did not question further as I was satisfied that this was his choice. Subsequently upon arrival into the palm springs area we contacted approach clt for advisory service. We were then advised that santa ana coast approach had called them to advise us that we had penetrated the el toro arsa west/O communicating with them on our climb out. I was completely unaware of the existence of this arsa centered around an adjoining military air base just south of orange county. In the subsequent exchange, the captain remarked that he had intended and believed that our flight track had remained outside the latitude limits of the arsa until well above the vertical limits. Contributing factors: use of IFR publications, ie, approach plates, SID's, and en route charts for a flight conducted under VFR when such publications inadequately display airspace such as an arsa. A low time captain with a low time first officer and neither one adequately familiar with the area to accept such a VFR departure in the complicated airspace surrounding orange county west/O at least the assistance of ATC. In the future, as an first officer, I will insist prior to departure of a complete briefing on the departure plan, especially when it is a vague as this had been. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter new with company and not sure of all procedures yet. Felt captain knew what he was doing. Chose VFR as a time saver. This particular routing is not one where company allows pilot discretion to decline the pre-filed IFR flight plan. This was night flight, so would have been hard to read VFR charts if available.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PENETRATED ARSA.
Narrative: ON THE LAST LEG OF THE DAY WE WERE LEAVING ORANGE COUNTY FOR PALM SPRINGS. IT WAS THE CAPT'S LEG TO FLY. WHILE I WAS PREPARING THE CABIN THE CAPT WAS OBTAINING THE CLRNC. AS WE TAXIED OUT, A RELATIVELY SHORT DISTANCE, I WAS BUSIED WITH MY RESPONSIBILITIES OF DETERMINING TKOF PWR, SPDS, PAX BRIEFING, AND CHKING FOR CLRNC ALONG THE DIMLY LIT RAMP AND TXWYS. HOLDING SHORT OF THE RWY AND RUNNING THE CHKLIST I NOTED THE 1200 CODE IN THE TRANSPONDER AND THE RESPONSE WAS A VFR DEP. I PRESUMED THE CAPT HAD DECLINED THE PREFILED IFR FLT PLAN FOR A VFR FLT. HAVING BEEN ON LINE ONLY 1 MONTH I HAD FLOWN WITH SEVERAL CAPTS, EACH OF WHICH HAD THEIR OWN WAYS OF WORKING WITH THE SYS--VFR CLBS, VFR ON TOP, ETC. SINCE I KNEW WE WOULD REMAIN WELL S AND E OF THE LA TCA, AND CLBING TO 11000', I SAW NOTHING ILLEGAL WITH THIS, HOWEVER UNORTHODOX. AFTER DEP THE TWR SUGGESTED OUR DISCRETION, APCH CTL ON A SPECIFIC FREQ FOR VFR ADVISORIES. I WAS HANDLING THE RADIOS AND ACKNOWLEDGED THE CHANGE. THE RADIO ON THE CAPT'S SIDE IS NORMALLY SET BY THE CAPT. WHEN HE FAILED TO CHANGE FREQ, OR CHOSE NOT TO, I TOOK THAT TO MEAN THAT HE DID NOT WANT VFR SVC. AT THE TIME A STERILE COCKPIT WAS BEING OBSERVED AND THE CAPT SEEMED SOMEWHAT BUSY WITH FLYING THE AIRPLANE. I DID NOT QUESTION FURTHER AS I WAS SATISFIED THAT THIS WAS HIS CHOICE. SUBSEQUENTLY UPON ARR INTO THE PALM SPRINGS AREA WE CONTACTED APCH CLT FOR ADVISORY SVC. WE WERE THEN ADVISED THAT SANTA ANA COAST APCH HAD CALLED THEM TO ADVISE US THAT WE HAD PENETRATED THE EL TORO ARSA W/O COMMUNICATING WITH THEM ON OUR CLBOUT. I WAS COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THIS ARSA CENTERED AROUND AN ADJOINING MIL AIR BASE JUST S OF ORANGE COUNTY. IN THE SUBSEQUENT EXCHANGE, THE CAPT REMARKED THAT HE HAD INTENDED AND BELIEVED THAT OUR FLT TRACK HAD REMAINED OUTSIDE THE LAT LIMITS OF THE ARSA UNTIL WELL ABOVE THE VERT LIMITS. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: USE OF IFR PUBLICATIONS, IE, APCH PLATES, SID'S, AND ENRTE CHARTS FOR A FLT CONDUCTED UNDER VFR WHEN SUCH PUBLICATIONS INADEQUATELY DISPLAY AIRSPACE SUCH AS AN ARSA. A LOW TIME CAPT WITH A LOW TIME F/O AND NEITHER ONE ADEQUATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA TO ACCEPT SUCH A VFR DEP IN THE COMPLICATED AIRSPACE SURROUNDING ORANGE COUNTY W/O AT LEAST THE ASSISTANCE OF ATC. IN THE FUTURE, AS AN F/O, I WILL INSIST PRIOR TO DEP OF A COMPLETE BRIEFING ON THE DEP PLAN, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS A VAGUE AS THIS HAD BEEN. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR NEW WITH COMPANY AND NOT SURE OF ALL PROCS YET. FELT CAPT KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING. CHOSE VFR AS A TIME SAVER. THIS PARTICULAR ROUTING IS NOT ONE WHERE COMPANY ALLOWS PLT DISCRETION TO DECLINE THE PRE-FILED IFR FLT PLAN. THIS WAS NIGHT FLT, SO WOULD HAVE BEEN HARD TO READ VFR CHARTS IF AVAILABLE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.