Narrative:

Background: it has been my experience that the usual sequence occurs. After takeoff, fly heading maintain 2000'. Climb and maintain 13000'. About 3500' cleared left turn direct lax VOR, then on course. About 2/3 of the time, the clearance includes cross lax at or above 10000'. On flight lax-las, the above sequence occurred except that a crossing restriction was not issued. The left turn was made at 200-210 KTS. I had been paying close attention to the clrncs and verified with the first officer that a crossing restriction had not been issued. After rolling out direct lax, it was apparent we would not cross at or above 10000' west/O a zoom maneuver. I called lax departure to confirm that there was no crossing restriction. He replied, 'it's on the SID.' I said, 'the SID only says to expect it.' he said, 'it doesn't matter, there's no traffic.' we crossed at approximately 9500'. After consulting the aim, I found no guidance for this situation. The controller considered the restriction mandatory. I considered it not mandatory unless stated. The question is, 'who is right?' also, how close can ATC let you get to an expect crossing restriction and then issue it? Even if the restriction was mandatory, after being cleared to 2000' initially, then reclred to 13000', the restriction would have to be restated.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR MLG QUERIED LAX DEP ON NOT RECEIVING 10000' CROSSING RESTRICTION. PLT TOLD, 'IT'S ON THE SID.'

Narrative: BACKGROUND: IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT THE USUAL SEQUENCE OCCURS. AFTER TKOF, FLY HDG MAINTAIN 2000'. CLB AND MAINTAIN 13000'. ABOUT 3500' CLRED LEFT TURN DIRECT LAX VOR, THEN ON COURSE. ABOUT 2/3 OF THE TIME, THE CLRNC INCLUDES CROSS LAX AT OR ABOVE 10000'. ON FLT LAX-LAS, THE ABOVE SEQUENCE OCCURRED EXCEPT THAT A XING RESTRICTION WAS NOT ISSUED. THE LEFT TURN WAS MADE AT 200-210 KTS. I HAD BEEN PAYING CLOSE ATTN TO THE CLRNCS AND VERIFIED WITH THE F/O THAT A XING RESTRICTION HAD NOT BEEN ISSUED. AFTER ROLLING OUT DIRECT LAX, IT WAS APPARENT WE WOULD NOT CROSS AT OR ABOVE 10000' W/O A ZOOM MANEUVER. I CALLED LAX DEP TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WAS NO XING RESTRICTION. HE REPLIED, 'IT'S ON THE SID.' I SAID, 'THE SID ONLY SAYS TO EXPECT IT.' HE SAID, 'IT DOESN'T MATTER, THERE'S NO TFC.' WE CROSSED AT APPROX 9500'. AFTER CONSULTING THE AIM, I FOUND NO GUIDANCE FOR THIS SITUATION. THE CTLR CONSIDERED THE RESTRICTION MANDATORY. I CONSIDERED IT NOT MANDATORY UNLESS STATED. THE QUESTION IS, 'WHO IS RIGHT?' ALSO, HOW CLOSE CAN ATC LET YOU GET TO AN EXPECT XING RESTRICTION AND THEN ISSUE IT? EVEN IF THE RESTRICTION WAS MANDATORY, AFTER BEING CLRED TO 2000' INITIALLY, THEN RECLRED TO 13000', THE RESTRICTION WOULD HAVE TO BE RESTATED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.