|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1201 To 1800|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : evv|
airport : 2i0
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 10000|
msl bound upper : 10600
|Controlling Facilities||artcc : zid|
tracon : evv
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng|
|Flight Phase||climbout : intermediate altitude|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
pilot : instrument
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 26|
flight time total : 2500
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||non adherence : clearance|
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||Pilot Deviation|
On departure from 21O, evv departure control gave clearance to 3000', expect 11000' within 10 mins. Radar contact at 1500' and clearance to 11000' given. Contact ZID given about 9000'. Due to radio traffic, contact made at 10600'. They wanted to know why we were above 10000'. Their airspace started at 10000' and they had not cleared us to 11000'. This was first indication of any bending of the rules. All readbacks had been given and acknowledged and altitude alerter set for clearance given. Next landing was at louisville, ky, standiford field. On departure from there clearance also given to 11000' and set in alerter. Pilot and I discussed the clearance, but did not question departure control. When handed over to ATC, we asked about clearance to 11000' and were told again that the space above 10000' was theirs. Since we called before passing through 10000', there was no problem at louisville. I do not know what the problem was on this day. It is the first time I have ever had one controller disagree with clearance from another controller. I also do not climb above 1000' anymore west/O contact with ATC or a question to departure control about the clearance limit. When the limit is above 10000' from departure, there is coordination between the 2 controllers by phone. This shows that even when being alert and paying attention, you can still bend someone's rules, especially when you don't know what their rules are.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SUPPLEMENTAL ACR LTT OVERSHOT ALT ON CLIMBOUT FROM UNCONTROLLED ARPT AND ALMOST DID IT AGAIN LATER WHEN DEPARTING SDF.
Narrative: ON DEP FROM 21O, EVV DEP CTL GAVE CLRNC TO 3000', EXPECT 11000' WITHIN 10 MINS. RADAR CONTACT AT 1500' AND CLRNC TO 11000' GIVEN. CONTACT ZID GIVEN ABOUT 9000'. DUE TO RADIO TFC, CONTACT MADE AT 10600'. THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHY WE WERE ABOVE 10000'. THEIR AIRSPACE STARTED AT 10000' AND THEY HAD NOT CLRED US TO 11000'. THIS WAS FIRST INDICATION OF ANY BENDING OF THE RULES. ALL READBACKS HAD BEEN GIVEN AND ACKNOWLEDGED AND ALT ALERTER SET FOR CLRNC GIVEN. NEXT LNDG WAS AT LOUISVILLE, KY, STANDIFORD FIELD. ON DEP FROM THERE CLRNC ALSO GIVEN TO 11000' AND SET IN ALERTER. PLT AND I DISCUSSED THE CLRNC, BUT DID NOT QUESTION DEP CTL. WHEN HANDED OVER TO ATC, WE ASKED ABOUT CLRNC TO 11000' AND WERE TOLD AGAIN THAT THE SPACE ABOVE 10000' WAS THEIRS. SINCE WE CALLED BEFORE PASSING THROUGH 10000', THERE WAS NO PROB AT LOUISVILLE. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE PROB WAS ON THIS DAY. IT IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER HAD ONE CTLR DISAGREE WITH CLRNC FROM ANOTHER CTLR. I ALSO DO NOT CLB ABOVE 1000' ANYMORE W/O CONTACT WITH ATC OR A QUESTION TO DEP CTL ABOUT THE CLRNC LIMIT. WHEN THE LIMIT IS ABOVE 10000' FROM DEP, THERE IS COORD BTWN THE 2 CTLRS BY PHONE. THIS SHOWS THAT EVEN WHEN BEING ALERT AND PAYING ATTN, YOU CAN STILL BEND SOMEONE'S RULES, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR RULES ARE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.