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An FA50 captain reported that his request for the normal obstacle departure procedure at hnd was denied because of las traffic concerns. The substitute procedure involved visual terrain clearance which could be potentially unsafe at night.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 810921 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200811 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : hnd.airport |
| State Reference | NV |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : hnd.tower |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Falcon 50 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 810921 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
For a night IFR departure from hnd; requested the published obstacle departure procedure (odp) for runway 35L (to remain clear of terrain on departure). We were advised by tower that las vegas approach would not approve any departures using the obstacle departure procedure because of the runway confign at las and that the only IFR departure available would be a right turn to heading 180 degrees after takeoff maintaining visual terrain avoidance. This procedure is ok during daylight; but at night it requires avoiding unlighted terrain visually that cannot be seen. While a pilot with local knowledge might be comfortable with this procedure a transient pilot does not have knowledge of where a safe visual path would be. With runway closure for construction at las; henderson was utilized to avoid traffic delays at mccarran.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN FA50 CAPTAIN REPORTED THAT HIS REQUEST FOR THE NORMAL OBSTACLE DEPARTURE PROCEDURE AT HND WAS DENIED BECAUSE OF LAS TRAFFIC CONCERNS. THE SUBSTITUTE PROCEDURE INVOLVED VISUAL TERRAIN CLEARANCE WHICH COULD BE POTENTIALLY UNSAFE AT NIGHT.
Narrative: FOR A NIGHT IFR DEP FROM HND; REQUESTED THE PUBLISHED OBSTACLE DEP PROC (ODP) FOR RWY 35L (TO REMAIN CLEAR OF TERRAIN ON DEP). WE WERE ADVISED BY TWR THAT LAS VEGAS APCH WOULD NOT APPROVE ANY DEPS USING THE OBSTACLE DEP PROC BECAUSE OF THE RWY CONFIGN AT LAS AND THAT THE ONLY IFR DEP AVAILABLE WOULD BE A R TURN TO HDG 180 DEGS AFTER TKOF MAINTAINING VISUAL TERRAIN AVOIDANCE. THIS PROC IS OK DURING DAYLIGHT; BUT AT NIGHT IT REQUIRES AVOIDING UNLIGHTED TERRAIN VISUALLY THAT CANNOT BE SEEN. WHILE A PLT WITH LOCAL KNOWLEDGE MIGHT BE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PROC A TRANSIENT PLT DOES NOT HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE A SAFE VISUAL PATH WOULD BE. WITH RWY CLOSURE FOR CONSTRUCTION AT LAS; HENDERSON WAS UTILIZED TO AVOID TFC DELAYS AT MCCARRAN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.