|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||airport : msp|
|Altitude||agl bound lower : 0|
agl bound upper : 0
|Controlling Facilities||tower : msp|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng|
|Flight Phase||descent : approach|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
pilot : instrument
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 240|
flight time total : 1750
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Anomaly||inflight encounter : weather|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
We left hib for a 55 min scheduled 135 flight after approximately 1 hour gate hold on ground at hib due to WX below minimums/runway plowing and sanding at mip international. Got our release at approximately XQ45 from local FSS at hib. Quick check of WX with RVR and visibility reported good enough for us to legally depart. Winds 020 degrees at 11 KTS. Allowing us option of runway (currently in use) with minimums RVR 4000, 3/4 mi, DH of 1080' (250 AGL) or runway 29L (if it was plowed and ready, but captain would not query ATC about 29L [lower minimums and I let him know that was the runway I wanted if at all possible while we were en route). I was the first officer and it was my leg to fly. We were slowed to 160 KTS and given a 360 degree turn at about 48 mi out. Then given dir msp to cross 30 north at 8000'. Then, given dir fcm. Soon we were put on vectors for runway 4. Turned to intercept at 35 mi final. About 5 mi outside the OM we were told to contact tower. Captain did not contact tower until just inside the FAF in case RVR had dropped below 4000'. Tower informed us that RVR 3000' once we contacted them. We continued the approach and landed. Tower queried us as to what visibility we had and captain informed them we had 3/4 mi. I questioned him when we contacted tower if we could legally land if RVR did not come up to 4000'. He said, 'yes we can if we have the legal flight visibility at DH. Far 135.225 is very obscure as to how controling RVR really is in this situation. I don't know how the fed's look upon this, but plan to get some answers so that there is no question the next time. Cbc conversation revealed the following information: reporter had not made an inquiry as FSDO concerning this question. He had attended an industry safety seminar and had been told there that what they did was illegal. Reporter was advised during cbc that they could continue any approach that was commenced when the WX met their minimum requirements, and that the landing could be completed if they could see the necessary visual cues from DH in to the runway.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LTT CONTINUED APCH AND LANDED AFTER RVR DROPPED BELOW LNDG MINIMA WHEN THEY WERE ON APCH INSIDE FAF.
Narrative: WE LEFT HIB FOR A 55 MIN SCHEDULED 135 FLT AFTER APPROX 1 HR GATE HOLD ON GND AT HIB DUE TO WX BELOW MINIMUMS/RWY PLOWING AND SANDING AT MIP INTL. GOT OUR RELEASE AT APPROX XQ45 FROM LCL FSS AT HIB. QUICK CHK OF WX WITH RVR AND VIS RPTED GOOD ENOUGH FOR US TO LEGALLY DEPART. WINDS 020 DEGS AT 11 KTS. ALLOWING US OPTION OF RWY (CURRENTLY IN USE) WITH MINIMUMS RVR 4000, 3/4 MI, DH OF 1080' (250 AGL) OR RWY 29L (IF IT WAS PLOWED AND READY, BUT CAPT WOULD NOT QUERY ATC ABOUT 29L [LOWER MINIMUMS AND I LET HIM KNOW THAT WAS THE RWY I WANTED IF AT ALL POSSIBLE WHILE WE WERE ENRTE). I WAS THE F/O AND IT WAS MY LEG TO FLY. WE WERE SLOWED TO 160 KTS AND GIVEN A 360 DEG TURN AT ABOUT 48 MI OUT. THEN GIVEN DIR MSP TO CROSS 30 N AT 8000'. THEN, GIVEN DIR FCM. SOON WE WERE PUT ON VECTORS FOR RWY 4. TURNED TO INTERCEPT AT 35 MI FINAL. ABOUT 5 MI OUTSIDE THE OM WE WERE TOLD TO CONTACT TWR. CAPT DID NOT CONTACT TWR UNTIL JUST INSIDE THE FAF IN CASE RVR HAD DROPPED BELOW 4000'. TWR INFORMED US THAT RVR 3000' ONCE WE CONTACTED THEM. WE CONTINUED THE APCH AND LANDED. TWR QUERIED US AS TO WHAT VIS WE HAD AND CAPT INFORMED THEM WE HAD 3/4 MI. I QUESTIONED HIM WHEN WE CONTACTED TWR IF WE COULD LEGALLY LAND IF RVR DID NOT COME UP TO 4000'. HE SAID, 'YES WE CAN IF WE HAVE THE LEGAL FLT VIS AT DH. FAR 135.225 IS VERY OBSCURE AS TO HOW CTLING RVR REALLY IS IN THIS SITUATION. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE FED'S LOOK UPON THIS, BUT PLAN TO GET SOME ANSWERS SO THAT THERE IS NO QUESTION THE NEXT TIME. CBC CONVERSATION REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR HAD NOT MADE AN INQUIRY AS FSDO CONCERNING THIS QUESTION. HE HAD ATTENDED AN INDUSTRY SAFETY SEMINAR AND HAD BEEN TOLD THERE THAT WHAT THEY DID WAS ILLEGAL. RPTR WAS ADVISED DURING CBC THAT THEY COULD CONTINUE ANY APCH THAT WAS COMMENCED WHEN THE WX MET THEIR MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS, AND THAT THE LNDG COULD BE COMPLETED IF THEY COULD SEE THE NECESSARY VISUAL CUES FROM DH IN TO THE RWY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.