<< >> NASA ASRS Report 636497, November 2004

PA28 student pilot descend early for an ILS runway 31 approach to tvf because of routing versus approach clearance terminology.

Attributes
ACN	636497
Time
Date	200411
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : tvf.vor
State Reference	MN
Altitude	msl single value : 4300
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zmp.artcc
Operator	general aviation : instructional
Make Model Name	PA-28 Cherokee/Archer II/Dakota/Pillan/Warrior
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	ils localizer & glide slope : 31
Flight Phase	descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	approach : instrument precision
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 76 flight time total : 584 flight time type : 185
ASRS Report	636497
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

We requested the ILS runway 31 approach at tvf via the 12 DME arc. ATC cleared us to the OM via the arc. I had missed part of this clearance since I was speaking to my student on what to expect on the ILS approach. Once established on the 12 DME arc off the tvf VOR, my student started a descent down to the published altitude on the approach chart for the 12 DME arc segment. Both my student and myself understood ATC clearance as an approach clearance rather than just a routine clearance. There was some miscom between ATC and both my student and myself. I believe my inattn to our clearance instructions and my failure to clarify with ATC resulted in our altitude deviation on the arc. By briefing ahead of time and always asking ATC if there is some confusion, will prevent a recurrence of this situation.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: PA28 STUDENT PLT DSND EARLY FOR AN ILS RWY 31 APCH TO TVF BECAUSE OF ROUTING VERSUS APCH CLRNC TERMINOLOGY.

Narrative: WE REQUESTED THE ILS RWY 31 APCH AT TVF VIA THE 12 DME ARC. ATC CLRED US TO THE OM VIA THE ARC. I HAD MISSED PART OF THIS CLRNC SINCE I WAS SPEAKING TO MY STUDENT ON WHAT TO EXPECT ON THE ILS APCH. ONCE ESTABLISHED ON THE 12 DME ARC OFF THE TVF VOR, MY STUDENT STARTED A DSCNT DOWN TO THE PUBLISHED ALT ON THE APCH CHART FOR THE 12 DME ARC SEGMENT. BOTH MY STUDENT AND MYSELF UNDERSTOOD ATC CLRNC AS AN APCH CLRNC RATHER THAN JUST A ROUTINE CLRNC. THERE WAS SOME MISCOM BTWN ATC AND BOTH MY STUDENT AND MYSELF. I BELIEVE MY INATTN TO OUR CLRNC INSTRUCTIONS AND MY FAILURE TO CLARIFY WITH ATC RESULTED IN OUR ALTDEV ON THE ARC. BY BRIEFING AHEAD OF TIME AND ALWAYS ASKING ATC IF THERE IS SOME CONFUSION, WILL PREVENT A RECURRENCE OF THIS SIT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.