|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||airport : bos.airport|
|Controlling Facilities||tower : iah.tower|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||ground : preflight|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Qualification||pilot : atp|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Anomaly||non adherence : company policies|
non adherence : far
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : anomaly accepted|
|Problem Areas||Environmental Factor|
Flight Crew Human Performance
Inbound to bos, we determined that there would be extensive outbound delays due to fog in ewr. I contacted dispatch to find out if there was any possibility of moving the edct time for us up since I was starting to have a possible duty time problem. Dispatch mentioned, and I verified with clearance, that ewr was running 30 min airborne holding for flts once released. I was referred to the crew coordinator to inform them I would possibly have a problem, taking into account the fact a known delay was occurring. I met stiff resistance from the coordinator and she refused to accept this as well as going so far to tell me it was 'my mistake' and 'I would be held responsible' if I shut the trip down. My response was I was not going to risk a violation of my ticket just so we could operate the flight. She seemed annoyed at the fact I was calling to only alert them to a potential problem and to see if it was possible for the ATC desk to intervene. Boy was I mistaken at this attempt at 'working together.' my reward for this was a 20 min conversation which left me annoyed and I felt I was threatened for my attempts to follow an far. I then called the union duty officer to verify my thinking about the application of the known delay and the union did get involved and verified I was right. Later, I was getting pressure from the station to push-off the gate without an edct time and the possibility of going illegal because they did not want to move their ron aircraft. I informed them that this was a violation of company policy and I would be called to task for this since it would be construed as 'padding of flight times.' the gate supervisor got very belligerent. I tried to explain my position, but his tone was getting increasingly more confrontational, so I simply left. 1) I think it is pathetic that the scheduling and coordinating department have no clue about the proper application of duty time limits. 2) the flight plans which make up the times for our pilot schedules are a joke. 3) the 16 hour duty time is an accident waiting to happen. When time on duty approaches that 16 hour limit, there is obviously a problem going on that causes the day to be extended. This combined with veiled threats, lack of cooperation of enforcement by the company increases the pilot's stress level. This aside, I ended up flying an approach to CAT 2 minimums after being awake for almost 20 hours. The rule does not take into account a pilot's normal pattern of being awake and only considers when the person is on duty. It is extremely fatiguing. 4) the corporate culture in this company is nothing but lip service that the captain has final authority/authorized of the flight. Although that may be true in a final determination, I find numerous times that when I try and exert that authority/authorized and when it is grudgingly accepted, there is nothing but veiled threats, aggravation and arguing to get to that point.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CAPT ADVISES COMPANY SCHEDULERS FAILURE TO OBSERVE FAR FLT CREW DUTY TIME REGS AND FELT THREATENED TO DISREGARD LIMITS WHICH WOULD CAUSE FLT DELAYS OR CANCELLATIONS.
Narrative: INBOUND TO BOS, WE DETERMINED THAT THERE WOULD BE EXTENSIVE OUTBOUND DELAYS DUE TO FOG IN EWR. I CONTACTED DISPATCH TO FIND OUT IF THERE WAS ANY POSSIBILITY OF MOVING THE EDCT TIME FOR US UP SINCE I WAS STARTING TO HAVE A POSSIBLE DUTY TIME PROB. DISPATCH MENTIONED, AND I VERIFIED WITH CLRNC, THAT EWR WAS RUNNING 30 MIN AIRBORNE HOLDING FOR FLTS ONCE RELEASED. I WAS REFERRED TO THE CREW COORDINATOR TO INFORM THEM I WOULD POSSIBLY HAVE A PROB, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE FACT A KNOWN DELAY WAS OCCURRING. I MET STIFF RESISTANCE FROM THE COORDINATOR AND SHE REFUSED TO ACCEPT THIS AS WELL AS GOING SO FAR TO TELL ME IT WAS 'MY MISTAKE' AND 'I WOULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE' IF I SHUT THE TRIP DOWN. MY RESPONSE WAS I WAS NOT GOING TO RISK A VIOLATION OF MY TICKET JUST SO WE COULD OPERATE THE FLT. SHE SEEMED ANNOYED AT THE FACT I WAS CALLING TO ONLY ALERT THEM TO A POTENTIAL PROB AND TO SEE IF IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR THE ATC DESK TO INTERVENE. BOY WAS I MISTAKEN AT THIS ATTEMPT AT 'WORKING TOGETHER.' MY REWARD FOR THIS WAS A 20 MIN CONVERSATION WHICH LEFT ME ANNOYED AND I FELT I WAS THREATENED FOR MY ATTEMPTS TO FOLLOW AN FAR. I THEN CALLED THE UNION DUTY OFFICER TO VERIFY MY THINKING ABOUT THE APPLICATION OF THE KNOWN DELAY AND THE UNION DID GET INVOLVED AND VERIFIED I WAS RIGHT. LATER, I WAS GETTING PRESSURE FROM THE STATION TO PUSH-OFF THE GATE WITHOUT AN EDCT TIME AND THE POSSIBILITY OF GOING ILLEGAL BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WANT TO MOVE THEIR RON ACFT. I INFORMED THEM THAT THIS WAS A VIOLATION OF COMPANY POLICY AND I WOULD BE CALLED TO TASK FOR THIS SINCE IT WOULD BE CONSTRUED AS 'PADDING OF FLT TIMES.' THE GATE SUPVR GOT VERY BELLIGERENT. I TRIED TO EXPLAIN MY POS, BUT HIS TONE WAS GETTING INCREASINGLY MORE CONFRONTATIONAL, SO I SIMPLY LEFT. 1) I THINK IT IS PATHETIC THAT THE SCHEDULING AND COORDINATING DEPT HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THE PROPER APPLICATION OF DUTY TIME LIMITS. 2) THE FLT PLANS WHICH MAKE UP THE TIMES FOR OUR PLT SCHEDULES ARE A JOKE. 3) THE 16 HR DUTY TIME IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. WHEN TIME ON DUTY APPROACHES THAT 16 HR LIMIT, THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A PROB GOING ON THAT CAUSES THE DAY TO BE EXTENDED. THIS COMBINED WITH VEILED THREATS, LACK OF COOPERATION OF ENFORCEMENT BY THE COMPANY INCREASES THE PLT'S STRESS LEVEL. THIS ASIDE, I ENDED UP FLYING AN APCH TO CAT 2 MINIMUMS AFTER BEING AWAKE FOR ALMOST 20 HRS. THE RULE DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT A PLT'S NORMAL PATTERN OF BEING AWAKE AND ONLY CONSIDERS WHEN THE PERSON IS ON DUTY. IT IS EXTREMELY FATIGUING. 4) THE CORPORATE CULTURE IN THIS COMPANY IS NOTHING BUT LIP SVC THAT THE CAPT HAS FINAL AUTH OF THE FLT. ALTHOUGH THAT MAY BE TRUE IN A FINAL DETERMINATION, I FIND NUMEROUS TIMES THAT WHEN I TRY AND EXERT THAT AUTH AND WHEN IT IS GRUDGINGLY ACCEPTED, THERE IS NOTHING BUT VEILED THREATS, AGGRAVATION AND ARGUING TO GET TO THAT POINT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.