Narrative:

Taxiing from FBO to runway 21L for departure at luk. I was the first officer and PF. We were in a hurry due to delays for deicing and maintenance, trying to make a slot time at our destination. We were cleared to 'taxi to runway 21L via taxiway C and taxiway a.' this involved crossing 3 runways: runway 25 departure end, runway 21R, and runway 25 approach end. Runway 25 was closed at the time. Runway 25 and runway 21L form an angle, with their approach ends almost intersecting. While we were taxiing on taxiway a, the ground controller tried to issue us a revised IFR clearance, which prompted a strained discussion between the captain (PNF) and the controller. The captain went 'heads down' in the cockpit trying to clarify the clearance. Approaching runway 25, I saw the red 'runway 25' sign and the runway 25 hold short line. I did not see a sign or line to hold short of runway 21L, but I did see a hold short line on the other side of runway 25, between runway 25 and runway 21L. As we had been cleared to 'taxi to runway 21L,' and since runway 25 was closed, I believed I could cross runway 25 and that the hold short line on the other side of runway 25 would be the one for runway 21L. As we started to cross runway 25, the controller told us to stop. I could see that the hold short line I had been looking at was, in fact, the hold short line for runway 25 for aircraft coming from the other side. A twin propeller airplane landed on runway 21L with plenty of clearance, but we had, in fact, crossed over the runway 21L hold short line. We subsequently departed without further incident. I never saw a red hold short sign or hold short line for runway 21L. I spoke to the tower supervisor later and he stated that the hold short line for runway 21L is on runway 25, and the red runway sign for runway 21L is visible from aircraft when they are 'on' runway 25. I did not see either one because as I crossed runway 25, I was checking the runway and the approach path for aircraft. There is also a yellow sign 'hold here for runway 25 and runway 21L' on taxiway a, well prior to runway 25. I missed that sign, probably because I was trying to taxi quickly and keep an ear to the conversation about the clearance. There were a couple of ft of snow on the ground. It is also possible that snow had obscured the red runway 21L sign and/or the yellow sign prior to runway 25. The supervisor said that the normal clearance is simply 'taxi to runway 31L,' with no requirement to hold short of runway 25 or to hold at the yellow sign. Sometimes certain controllers add the requirement to hold short of runway 25, or to hold at the yellow sign, but this is not routine. He and I agreed that making the clearance more specific regarding where to hold short would be a big improvement. The supervisor also stated that there have been many, many runway incursions in that spot in the past. He agreed that as one crosses a runway, one is looking for traffic, not runway signs. He said he has been trying to get the FAA to change the runway signage at that location for some time without success. Contributing factors, in my opinion, were: 1) hurried taxi due to delayed block out and impending slot time. 2) improperly delivered amendment to IFR clearance. 3) belligerence between captain and ground controller over clearance. 4) clearance to taxi to runway 21L should be modified to include information about where to hold short. 5) very confusing signage at intersection of taxiway a and runways 25 and runway 21L. 6) hold short line on another runway. 7) closed runway 25 made crew less vigilant at intersection. 8) landing aircraft should have been sent around.

Related reports:

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A GII FO, TAXIING AT LUK, BECAME DISTR BY AN ARGUMENT HIS CAPT WAS HAVING WITH LUK GND, CAUSING A RWY INCURSION.

Narrative: TAXIING FROM FBO TO RWY 21L FOR DEP AT LUK. I WAS THE FO AND PF. WE WERE IN A HURRY DUE TO DELAYS FOR DEICING AND MAINT, TRYING TO MAKE A SLOT TIME AT OUR DEST. WE WERE CLRED TO 'TAXI TO RWY 21L VIA TXWY C AND TXWY A.' THIS INVOLVED XING 3 RWYS: RWY 25 DEP END, RWY 21R, AND RWY 25 APCH END. RWY 25 WAS CLOSED AT THE TIME. RWY 25 AND RWY 21L FORM AN ANGLE, WITH THEIR APCH ENDS ALMOST INTERSECTING. WHILE WE WERE TAXIING ON TXWY A, THE GND CTLR TRIED TO ISSUE US A REVISED IFR CLRNC, WHICH PROMPTED A STRAINED DISCUSSION BTWN THE CAPT (PNF) AND THE CTLR. THE CAPT WENT 'HEADS DOWN' IN THE COCKPIT TRYING TO CLARIFY THE CLRNC. APCHING RWY 25, I SAW THE RED 'RWY 25' SIGN AND THE RWY 25 HOLD SHORT LINE. I DID NOT SEE A SIGN OR LINE TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 21L, BUT I DID SEE A HOLD SHORT LINE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF RWY 25, BTWN RWY 25 AND RWY 21L. AS WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO 'TAXI TO RWY 21L,' AND SINCE RWY 25 WAS CLOSED, I BELIEVED I COULD CROSS RWY 25 AND THAT THE HOLD SHORT LINE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF RWY 25 WOULD BE THE ONE FOR RWY 21L. AS WE STARTED TO CROSS RWY 25, THE CTLR TOLD US TO STOP. I COULD SEE THAT THE HOLD SHORT LINE I HAD BEEN LOOKING AT WAS, IN FACT, THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 25 FOR ACFT COMING FROM THE OTHER SIDE. A TWIN PROP AIRPLANE LANDED ON RWY 21L WITH PLENTY OF CLRNC, BUT WE HAD, IN FACT, CROSSED OVER THE RWY 21L HOLD SHORT LINE. WE SUBSEQUENTLY DEPARTED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. I NEVER SAW A RED HOLD SHORT SIGN OR HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 21L. I SPOKE TO THE TWR SUPVR LATER AND HE STATED THAT THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 21L IS ON RWY 25, AND THE RED RWY SIGN FOR RWY 21L IS VISIBLE FROM ACFT WHEN THEY ARE 'ON' RWY 25. I DID NOT SEE EITHER ONE BECAUSE AS I CROSSED RWY 25, I WAS CHKING THE RWY AND THE APCH PATH FOR ACFT. THERE IS ALSO A YELLOW SIGN 'HOLD HERE FOR RWY 25 AND RWY 21L' ON TXWY A, WELL PRIOR TO RWY 25. I MISSED THAT SIGN, PROBABLY BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO TAXI QUICKLY AND KEEP AN EAR TO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE CLRNC. THERE WERE A COUPLE OF FT OF SNOW ON THE GND. IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT SNOW HAD OBSCURED THE RED RWY 21L SIGN AND/OR THE YELLOW SIGN PRIOR TO RWY 25. THE SUPVR SAID THAT THE NORMAL CLRNC IS SIMPLY 'TAXI TO RWY 31L,' WITH NO REQUIREMENT TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25 OR TO HOLD AT THE YELLOW SIGN. SOMETIMES CERTAIN CTLRS ADD THE REQUIREMENT TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25, OR TO HOLD AT THE YELLOW SIGN, BUT THIS IS NOT ROUTINE. HE AND I AGREED THAT MAKING THE CLRNC MORE SPECIFIC REGARDING WHERE TO HOLD SHORT WOULD BE A BIG IMPROVEMENT. THE SUPVR ALSO STATED THAT THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY RWY INCURSIONS IN THAT SPOT IN THE PAST. HE AGREED THAT AS ONE CROSSES A RWY, ONE IS LOOKING FOR TFC, NOT RWY SIGNS. HE SAID HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO GET THE FAA TO CHANGE THE RWY SIGNAGE AT THAT LOCATION FOR SOME TIME WITHOUT SUCCESS. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS, IN MY OPINION, WERE: 1) HURRIED TAXI DUE TO DELAYED BLOCK OUT AND IMPENDING SLOT TIME. 2) IMPROPERLY DELIVERED AMENDMENT TO IFR CLRNC. 3) BELLIGERENCE BTWN CAPT AND GND CTLR OVER CLRNC. 4) CLRNC TO TAXI TO RWY 21L SHOULD BE MODIFIED TO INCLUDE INFO ABOUT WHERE TO HOLD SHORT. 5) VERY CONFUSING SIGNAGE AT INTXN OF TXWY A AND RWYS 25 AND RWY 21L. 6) HOLD SHORT LINE ON ANOTHER RWY. 7) CLOSED RWY 25 MADE CREW LESS VIGILANT AT INTXN. 8) LNDG ACFT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENT AROUND.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.