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ZNY en route air carrier turboprop initiates TCASII maneuver from descending en route air carrier turboprop which was providing visual separation.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 510819 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200105 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : uca.vortac |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 119 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change |
| Route In Use | enroute other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Route In Use | enroute other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 1700 flight time type : 250 |
| ASRS Report | 510819 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action flight crew : took evasive action |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 500 vertical : 2000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Flight from jfk-uca. While talking to ZNY, ATC advised us of an air carrier DH8 was at 10-11 O'clock position at 13000 ft. We reported we had traffic in sight and ATC said to maintain visual separation and descend to 12000 ft. We began descent and the DH8 did not have us in sight and got an RA on the TCASII and responded by a steep descent. By this time we were behind and below DH8. We made a wider turn behind the DH8 because of their steep rate of descent. The DH8 crew was upset with both ATC and us. ATC assured the crew of the DH8 that we were maintaining visual separation the entire time. In retrospect, we could have refused descent until the DH8 was past us. If the DH8 remained at their altitude it may have been averted. They were talking to the same controller and knew we had visual and were descending.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ZNY ENRTE ACR TURBOPROP INITIATES TCASII MANEUVER FROM DSNDING ENRTE ACR TURBOPROP WHICH WAS PROVIDING VISUAL SEPARATION.
Narrative: FLT FROM JFK-UCA. WHILE TALKING TO ZNY, ATC ADVISED US OF AN ACR DH8 WAS AT 10-11 O'CLOCK POS AT 13000 FT. WE RPTED WE HAD TFC IN SIGHT AND ATC SAID TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION AND DSND TO 12000 FT. WE BEGAN DSCNT AND THE DH8 DID NOT HAVE US IN SIGHT AND GOT AN RA ON THE TCASII AND RESPONDED BY A STEEP DSCNT. BY THIS TIME WE WERE BEHIND AND BELOW DH8. WE MADE A WIDER TURN BEHIND THE DH8 BECAUSE OF THEIR STEEP RATE OF DSCNT. THE DH8 CREW WAS UPSET WITH BOTH ATC AND US. ATC ASSURED THE CREW OF THE DH8 THAT WE WERE MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION THE ENTIRE TIME. IN RETROSPECT, WE COULD HAVE REFUSED DSCNT UNTIL THE DH8 WAS PAST US. IF THE DH8 REMAINED AT THEIR ALT IT MAY HAVE BEEN AVERTED. THEY WERE TALKING TO THE SAME CTLR AND KNEW WE HAD VISUAL AND WERE DSNDING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.