Narrative:

In addition to the information provided to the company, I would like to make the following points: the controller had us sitting on the runway, position and hold, for what probably was longer than 10 minutes. I don't think this is safe or smart. It ties up the runway, and leaves us vulnerable -- witness the accident at lax some years ago. Furthermore, it doesn't take a be-1900 that long to get onto the runway and take off, the amount of time saved by 'position and hold' is negligible in this situation. Second, this controller's disposition seems to be particularly ill-suited for the ATC profession. He seems to think that we have our jobs as pilots for the benefit of him, rather than the other way around. At xa:30 local, I called saf tower (tower, ground, and clearance delivery were combined on 119.5) and said we were ready to taxi, IFR to denver. Tower said to call him back when we had the ATIS. We had the ATIS from the inbound, it had changed. The altimeter setting was .01 lower and the winds had shifted slightly. I called saf tower back and said that we had the ATIS. He told us to taxi to runway 20. We did. We got to runway 20 and waited for our clearance. While we were waiting, another air carrier flight taxied up behind us. Tower told the air carrier there would be a delay waiting for an IFR release. We thought he meant an IFR release for us and this was why we had not yet gotten our clearance. At xa:45, I called tower to ask what the delay was, for some information we could give to our passengers. He said that he was waiting on us! He had never told us that he had our clearance, so I told him that we were ready to copy. He gave us the clearance, and I read it back. I told him that we were ready to go and he cleared us into position and hold. He told us there was company traffic inbound, that he couldn't release us until he had them in sight. After nearly 10 minutes had passed, I called the inbound flight on company frequency to ask how far out they were. They were holding at the saf VOR, at 13000, in the clouds, waiting for lower! I called saf tower and relayed this information and his response was that he hadn't heard anything from albuquerque center. I suggested that there might be a need for improved communication between albuquerque center and santa flight engineer tower. I got no response. Eventually we were cleared to take off, after the company traffic was on left downwind. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter had not received any feedback from company. When asked about tower tape retention, reporter was advised that company, or affected party, needs to make facility aware of concerns within 15 days of incident, or the controller tape was recirculated back into use.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B190 FLC CHALLENGES SAF CTLR TO RESOLVE ISSUES FOR IFR DEP CLRNC AND EXTENDED 'POSITION AND HOLD' CLRNC WITH KNOWN TRAFFIC ON APCH.

Narrative: IN ADDITION TO THE INFORMATION PROVIDED TO THE COMPANY, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING POINTS: THE CONTROLLER HAD US SITTING ON THE RWY, POSITION AND HOLD, FOR WHAT PROBABLY WAS LONGER THAN 10 MINUTES. I DON'T THINK THIS IS SAFE OR SMART. IT TIES UP THE RWY, AND LEAVES US VULNERABLE -- WITNESS THE ACCIDENT AT LAX SOME YEARS AGO. FURTHERMORE, IT DOESN'T TAKE A BE-1900 THAT LONG TO GET ONTO THE RWY AND TAKE OFF, THE AMOUNT OF TIME SAVED BY 'POSITION AND HOLD' IS NEGLIGIBLE IN THIS SITUATION. SECOND, THIS CONTROLLER'S DISPOSITION SEEMS TO BE PARTICULARLY ILL-SUITED FOR THE ATC PROFESSION. HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WE HAVE OUR JOBS AS PILOTS FOR THE BENEFIT OF HIM, RATHER THAN THE OTHER WAY AROUND. AT XA:30 LCL, I CALLED SAF TOWER (TOWER, GROUND, AND CLEARANCE DELIVERY WERE COMBINED ON 119.5) AND SAID WE WERE READY TO TAXI, IFR TO DENVER. TOWER SAID TO CALL HIM BACK WHEN WE HAD THE ATIS. WE HAD THE ATIS FROM THE INBOUND, IT HAD CHANGED. THE ALTIMETER SETTING WAS .01 LOWER AND THE WINDS HAD SHIFTED SLIGHTLY. I CALLED SAF TOWER BACK AND SAID THAT WE HAD THE ATIS. HE TOLD US TO TAXI TO RWY 20. WE DID. WE GOT TO RWY 20 AND WAITED FOR OUR CLEARANCE. WHILE WE WERE WAITING, ANOTHER ACR FLIGHT TAXIED UP BEHIND US. TOWER TOLD THE ACR THERE WOULD BE A DELAY WAITING FOR AN IFR RELEASE. WE THOUGHT HE MEANT AN IFR RELEASE FOR US AND THIS WAS WHY WE HAD NOT YET GOTTEN OUR CLEARANCE. AT XA:45, I CALLED TOWER TO ASK WHAT THE DELAY WAS, FOR SOME INFORMATION WE COULD GIVE TO OUR PASSENGERS. HE SAID THAT HE WAS WAITING ON US! HE HAD NEVER TOLD US THAT HE HAD OUR CLEARANCE, SO I TOLD HIM THAT WE WERE READY TO COPY. HE GAVE US THE CLEARANCE, AND I READ IT BACK. I TOLD HIM THAT WE WERE READY TO GO AND HE CLEARED US INTO POSITION AND HOLD. HE TOLD US THERE WAS COMPANY TRAFFIC INBOUND, THAT HE COULDN'T RELEASE US UNTIL HE HAD THEM IN SIGHT. AFTER NEARLY 10 MINUTES HAD PASSED, I CALLED THE INBOUND FLIGHT ON COMPANY FREQUENCY TO ASK HOW FAR OUT THEY WERE. THEY WERE HOLDING AT THE SAF VOR, AT 13000, IN THE CLOUDS, WAITING FOR LOWER! I CALLED SAF TOWER AND RELAYED THIS INFORMATION AND HIS RESPONSE WAS THAT HE HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM ALBUQUERQUE CENTER. I SUGGESTED THAT THERE MIGHT BE A NEED FOR IMPROVED COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ALBUQUERQUE CENTER AND SANTA FE TOWER. I GOT NO RESPONSE. EVENTUALLY WE WERE CLEARED TO TAKE OFF, AFTER THE COMPANY TRAFFIC WAS ON LEFT DOWNWIND. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR HAD NOT RECEIVED ANY FEEDBACK FROM COMPANY. WHEN ASKED ABOUT TOWER TAPE RETENTION, RPTR WAS ADVISED THAT COMPANY, OR AFFECTED PARTY, NEEDS TO MAKE FAC AWARE OF CONCERNS WITHIN 15 DAYS OF INCIDENT, OR THE CTLR TAPE WAS RECIRCULATED BACK INTO USE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.