An air carrier flight overshoots the assigned altitude during an 'east side' STAR arrival into sna, ...

Attributes
ACN	472304
Time
Date	200005
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 8000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	arrival : on vectors arrival star : eastside
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 1200
ASRS Report	472304
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

During descent to sna, on the east side 3 arrival, we were cleared direct bands and descend to 14000 ft MSL. Subsequently we were cleared direct to dejay intersection. The captain asked if we were cleared on the profile, and my response was 'I think so, but would you like me to ask?' he said 'no, I think we were,' and my response was 'I don't mind, if you want I'll ask.' the captain said no thanks and started descending to 7000 ft MSL and slowing to 190 KIAS by kayoh intersection. After reaching 7000 ft and 190 KIAS, the socal controller asked what our airspeed was. I told him 190 KIAS and he asked if we could push it to 230 KIAS. We complied. Then we were given a number to call on the ground. Then we were told to expect a possible 'pilot deviation.' the rest of the approach and landing was uneventful. The captain called on the landline. As the captain briefed to me, socal approach's concern was why we did not follow our clearance to 8000 ft. He told socal that we never received clearance to 8000 ft. Socal said there were no other deviations and no possible conflicts but to know that most clrncs will be to 8000 ft MSL, not what is on the STAR. The captain assured the controllers that he would pass this information on to the pilot group when we returned to ewr. My correction action: if I am unsure of a clearance I will ask the controller for clarification no matter how sure the captain is of the proper clearance. This is proper CRM technique. If I had 'asked the question' this would not have occurred.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR FLT OVERSHOOTS THE ASSIGNED ALT DURING AN 'EAST SIDE' STAR ARR INTO SNA, CA.

Narrative: DURING DSCNT TO SNA, ON THE E SIDE 3 ARR, WE WERE CLRED DIRECT BANDS AND DSND TO 14000 FT MSL. SUBSEQUENTLY WE WERE CLRED DIRECT TO DEJAY INTXN. THE CAPT ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED ON THE PROFILE, AND MY RESPONSE WAS 'I THINK SO, BUT WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ASK?' HE SAID 'NO, I THINK WE WERE,' AND MY RESPONSE WAS 'I DON'T MIND, IF YOU WANT I'LL ASK.' THE CAPT SAID NO THANKS AND STARTED DSNDING TO 7000 FT MSL AND SLOWING TO 190 KIAS BY KAYOH INTXN. AFTER REACHING 7000 FT AND 190 KIAS, THE SOCAL CTLR ASKED WHAT OUR AIRSPD WAS. I TOLD HIM 190 KIAS AND HE ASKED IF WE COULD PUSH IT TO 230 KIAS. WE COMPLIED. THEN WE WERE GIVEN A NUMBER TO CALL ON THE GND. THEN WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT A POSSIBLE 'PLTDEV.' THE REST OF THE APCH AND LNDG WAS UNEVENTFUL. THE CAPT CALLED ON THE LANDLINE. AS THE CAPT BRIEFED TO ME, SOCAL APCH'S CONCERN WAS WHY WE DID NOT FOLLOW OUR CLRNC TO 8000 FT. HE TOLD SOCAL THAT WE NEVER RECEIVED CLRNC TO 8000 FT. SOCAL SAID THERE WERE NO OTHER DEVS AND NO POSSIBLE CONFLICTS BUT TO KNOW THAT MOST CLRNCS WILL BE TO 8000 FT MSL, NOT WHAT IS ON THE STAR. THE CAPT ASSURED THE CTLRS THAT HE WOULD PASS THIS INFO ON TO THE PLT GROUP WHEN WE RETURNED TO EWR. MY CORRECTION ACTION: IF I AM UNSURE OF A CLRNC I WILL ASK THE CTLR FOR CLARIFICATION NO MATTER HOW SURE THE CAPT IS OF THE PROPER CLRNC. THIS IS PROPER CRM TECHNIQUE. IF I HAD 'ASKED THE QUESTION' THIS WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

An air carrier flight overshoots the assigned altitude during an 'east side' STAR arrival into sna, ca.