 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
An A320 flight crew is confused about the arrival and descent clearance while on the pdz 3 STAR into lax, ca.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 461392 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200001 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : konzl |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 16000 msl bound upper : 17000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival star : paradise 3 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 4200 flight time type : 230 |
| ASRS Report | 461392 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 5000 |
| ASRS Report | 460910 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight from phx to lax. Assigned pdz 3 arrival, cleared to cross konzl intersection at 17000 ft. After passing konzl, STAR has you descend to 16000 ft at trtle intersection. Socal approach controller cleared us for pdz.3 arrival for runway 25L. The FMGC was programmed for runway 24R. As PNF, I began to modify the stored flight plan. There was confusion whether we were cleared to descend to 16000 ft by trtle intersection, but the captain and I were having small difficulty with a proper reprogramming of FMGC. I had entered 1 too many waypoints and the captain was pointing that out to me. Still level at 17000 ft and approaching trtle intersection, I questioned ATC if we were cleared to descend via the pdz.3 arrival. We were .3 DME from trtle, but not at 16000 ft MSL. I stated we would not make trtle if we were cleared. The ATC controller said no problem, 'descend your discretion' (14000 ft, which is the next fix). We complied and executed the entire approach without further incident. Lessons learned: 1) always verify if a descent is required to execute descent. 2) make sure 1 pilot if flying the aircraft. 3) suggest controller use phrase 'descend via' when automatic stepdowns are built into arrival (as in olympia.2 arrival -- seatac). 4) xchk when a SID/STAR says 'expect' versus 'cross at.' there is a big difference.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN A320 FLC IS CONFUSED ABOUT THE ARR AND DSCNT CLRNC WHILE ON THE PDZ 3 STAR INTO LAX, CA.
Narrative: FLT FROM PHX TO LAX. ASSIGNED PDZ 3 ARR, CLRED TO CROSS KONZL INTXN AT 17000 FT. AFTER PASSING KONZL, STAR HAS YOU DSND TO 16000 FT AT TRTLE INTXN. SOCAL APCH CTLR CLRED US FOR PDZ.3 ARR FOR RWY 25L. THE FMGC WAS PROGRAMMED FOR RWY 24R. AS PNF, I BEGAN TO MODIFY THE STORED FLT PLAN. THERE WAS CONFUSION WHETHER WE WERE CLRED TO DSND TO 16000 FT BY TRTLE INTXN, BUT THE CAPT AND I WERE HAVING SMALL DIFFICULTY WITH A PROPER REPROGRAMMING OF FMGC. I HAD ENTERED 1 TOO MANY WAYPOINTS AND THE CAPT WAS POINTING THAT OUT TO ME. STILL LEVEL AT 17000 FT AND APCHING TRTLE INTXN, I QUESTIONED ATC IF WE WERE CLRED TO DSND VIA THE PDZ.3 ARR. WE WERE .3 DME FROM TRTLE, BUT NOT AT 16000 FT MSL. I STATED WE WOULD NOT MAKE TRTLE IF WE WERE CLRED. THE ATC CTLR SAID NO PROB, 'DSND YOUR DISCRETION' (14000 FT, WHICH IS THE NEXT FIX). WE COMPLIED AND EXECUTED THE ENTIRE APCH WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. LESSONS LEARNED: 1) ALWAYS VERIFY IF A DSCNT IS REQUIRED TO EXECUTE DSCNT. 2) MAKE SURE 1 PLT IF FLYING THE ACFT. 3) SUGGEST CTLR USE PHRASE 'DSND VIA' WHEN AUTOMATIC STEPDOWNS ARE BUILT INTO ARR (AS IN OLYMPIA.2 ARR -- SEATAC). 4) XCHK WHEN A SID/STAR SAYS 'EXPECT' VERSUS 'CROSS AT.' THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.