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Medium large transport aircraft on STAR arrival missed the crossing restr at trtle. Reporter captain complains about the altitude restr location on the chart.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 402335 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199805 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Dusk |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax tower : phl |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : lax |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 14000 |
| ASRS Report | 402335 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
First officer was flying the aircraft on approach and we were cleared to cross konzl at or above 16000 ft and cleared ILS runway 25L after arnes. We crossed konzl at 16000 ft and the first officer was a little behind the aircraft, so I was talking him through the approach. With the design of the approach, I missed the 16000 ft at trtle because it was below the arrival depiction and I set 14000 ft for rifft. At about 15300 ft I noticed the 16000 ft restr so we leveled at 15000 ft and had about 1 mi to go to trtle so we crossed trtle at 15000 ft. Approach was extremely busy so we couldn't advise him before the crossing. We continued the approach normally and approach had no comment for us. I feel that this and other arrs are poorly designed for altitude restrs by placing the altitude below the course when all others are above the line. Especially in the 'heat of the battle.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG ACFT ON STAR ARR MISSED THE XING RESTR AT TRTLE. RPTR CAPT COMPLAINS ABOUT THE ALT RESTR LOCATION ON THE CHART.
Narrative: FO WAS FLYING THE ACFT ON APCH AND WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS KONZL AT OR ABOVE 16000 FT AND CLRED ILS RWY 25L AFTER ARNES. WE CROSSED KONZL AT 16000 FT AND THE FO WAS A LITTLE BEHIND THE ACFT, SO I WAS TALKING HIM THROUGH THE APCH. WITH THE DESIGN OF THE APCH, I MISSED THE 16000 FT AT TRTLE BECAUSE IT WAS BELOW THE ARR DEPICTION AND I SET 14000 FT FOR RIFFT. AT ABOUT 15300 FT I NOTICED THE 16000 FT RESTR SO WE LEVELED AT 15000 FT AND HAD ABOUT 1 MI TO GO TO TRTLE SO WE CROSSED TRTLE AT 15000 FT. APCH WAS EXTREMELY BUSY SO WE COULDN'T ADVISE HIM BEFORE THE XING. WE CONTINUED THE APCH NORMALLY AND APCH HAD NO COMMENT FOR US. I FEEL THAT THIS AND OTHER ARRS ARE POORLY DESIGNED FOR ALT RESTRS BY PLACING THE ALT BELOW THE COURSE WHEN ALL OTHERS ARE ABOVE THE LINE. ESPECIALLY IN THE 'HEAT OF THE BATTLE.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.