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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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| Attributes | |
| ACN | 400750 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199804 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lna |
| State Reference | FL |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 100 agl bound upper : 300 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | J3 Cub |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other other |
| Flight Plan | None |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | Cessna Aircraft Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
| Flight Plan | None |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee |
| Qualification | pilot : private |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 150 flight time type : 4 |
| ASRS Report | 400750 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | instruction : instructor oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : cfi |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
While doing touch-and-go working ('towards tailwheel endorsement') with CFI, entered left downwind runway 15. A cessna (forgot call sign) announced right downwind runway 15. Lna is left traffic. The cessna announced right base, I announced left base. He announced final but was a long way out (2 mi approximately). My instructor was initiated and put the plane on final (1/4 mi out at most -- piper cubs turn on a dime). I announced final (no electrical system and I had the handheld radio). The cessna pilot said to the effect 'wait, I am on final' to which I said 'well, we are no factor for you' (which we weren't) plus 'you are causing problems by not flying l-hand traffic.' btw unicom told the cessna on his initial call that runway 15 was 'active, l-hand traffic.' we both landed without a problem. I was caught between a rock and a hard place. If it had been up to me I would have dropped in and turned final behind the errant cessna. But, the CFI had taken the controls and I didn't think it worth wrestling over. Although in violation of 91.113(G), we were not a factor for the cessna, so I just announced our position. My comment on the radio regarding the cessna flying r-hand traffic was inappropriate. In the future I will 1) avoid temptation to tell other pilots their errors on unicom no matter how tempting, and 2) not turn in front of someone on final -- even if there is plenty of room to do so. Too risky! 3) remember what mom always said: 'two wrongs, don't make a right!'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A PIPER CUB CFI CUTS OFF A CESSNA ON FINAL BECAUSE THE CESSNA HAD ENTERED THE TFC PATTERN FROM THE WRONG SIDE, R TFC VERSUS L TFC.
Narrative: WHILE DOING TOUCH-AND-GO WORKING ('TOWARDS TAILWHEEL ENDORSEMENT') WITH CFI, ENTERED L DOWNWIND RWY 15. A CESSNA (FORGOT CALL SIGN) ANNOUNCED R DOWNWIND RWY 15. LNA IS L TFC. THE CESSNA ANNOUNCED R BASE, I ANNOUNCED L BASE. HE ANNOUNCED FINAL BUT WAS A LONG WAY OUT (2 MI APPROX). MY INSTRUCTOR WAS INITIATED AND PUT THE PLANE ON FINAL (1/4 MI OUT AT MOST -- PIPER CUBS TURN ON A DIME). I ANNOUNCED FINAL (NO ELECTRICAL SYS AND I HAD THE HANDHELD RADIO). THE CESSNA PLT SAID TO THE EFFECT 'WAIT, I AM ON FINAL' TO WHICH I SAID 'WELL, WE ARE NO FACTOR FOR YOU' (WHICH WE WEREN'T) PLUS 'YOU ARE CAUSING PROBS BY NOT FLYING L-HAND TFC.' BTW UNICOM TOLD THE CESSNA ON HIS INITIAL CALL THAT RWY 15 WAS 'ACTIVE, L-HAND TFC.' WE BOTH LANDED WITHOUT A PROB. I WAS CAUGHT BTWN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE. IF IT HAD BEEN UP TO ME I WOULD HAVE DROPPED IN AND TURNED FINAL BEHIND THE ERRANT CESSNA. BUT, THE CFI HAD TAKEN THE CTLS AND I DIDN'T THINK IT WORTH WRESTLING OVER. ALTHOUGH IN VIOLATION OF 91.113(G), WE WERE NOT A FACTOR FOR THE CESSNA, SO I JUST ANNOUNCED OUR POS. MY COMMENT ON THE RADIO REGARDING THE CESSNA FLYING R-HAND TFC WAS INAPPROPRIATE. IN THE FUTURE I WILL 1) AVOID TEMPTATION TO TELL OTHER PLTS THEIR ERRORS ON UNICOM NO MATTER HOW TEMPTING, AND 2) NOT TURN IN FRONT OF SOMEONE ON FINAL -- EVEN IF THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM TO DO SO. TOO RISKY! 3) REMEMBER WHAT MOM ALWAYS SAID: 'TWO WRONGS, DON'T MAKE A RIGHT!'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.