Reporter claims air carrier X had less than standard separation from air carrier Y. System error.

Attributes
ACN	299002
Time
Date	199503
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : fim
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 24000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zla
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent other
Route In Use	enroute : direct enroute airway : zla
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	cruise other
Route In Use	enroute : direct
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	299002
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Miss Distance	horizontal : 12000 vertical : 500
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error

Narrative:

Air carrier X en route from oak (or sfo, can't recall) to bur and were cleared to FL240 (descent). I saw that we would have to continue our descent to make the expect altitude of 11000 ft, 250 KTS at baill intersection. I asked the controller for lower but he either ignored me or didn't hear me soon after, he asked us 'are you descending to 11000 ft?' I said no, we haven't been cleared to do so. He then cleared us to descend, then gave another air carrier Y, at about 11 O'clock and 5 mi, a turn away from us. He then gave us a turn to avoid this traffic as well. It was clear that he had a deal and was trying to sort it out. We never acquired the traffic visually, only on TCASII.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: RPTR CLAIMS ACR X HAD LTSS FROM ACR Y. SYS ERROR.

Narrative: ACR X ENRTE FROM OAK (OR SFO, CAN'T RECALL) TO BUR AND WERE CLRED TO FL240 (DSCNT). I SAW THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO CONTINUE OUR DSCNT TO MAKE THE EXPECT ALT OF 11000 FT, 250 KTS AT BAILL INTXN. I ASKED THE CTLR FOR LOWER BUT HE EITHER IGNORED ME OR DIDN'T HEAR ME SOON AFTER, HE ASKED US 'ARE YOU DSNDING TO 11000 FT?' I SAID NO, WE HAVEN'T BEEN CLRED TO DO SO. HE THEN CLRED US TO DSND, THEN GAVE ANOTHER ACR Y, AT ABOUT 11 O'CLOCK AND 5 MI, A TURN AWAY FROM US. HE THEN GAVE US A TURN TO AVOID THIS TFC AS WELL. IT WAS CLR THAT HE HAD A DEAL AND WAS TRYING TO SORT IT OUT. WE NEVER ACQUIRED THE TFC VISUALLY, ONLY ON TCASII.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.