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PIC of air carrier medium large transport questions wake turbulence separation criterion as used in lax.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 112359 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198905 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding |
| Route In Use | departure sid : sid |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 112359 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : local |
| Qualification | controller : non radar |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I was approaching the takeoff point at lax, runway 24L. The plane in front of me was a widebody transport. The wind was 240/10. I felt it was prudent to ask for either a 2 minute delay or 5 mi in trail. I was told by the tower to clear the runway and taxi to the other side which I perceive as a form of punishment for asking. A medium large transport was cleared for an immediate takeoff behind me. I timed it at 1 minute and 40 seconds from the start of the widebody transport roll. An large transport was then cleared for takeoff. I then asked for the reason I was being delayed. I was told I had asked a 5 mi separation. I would like to know if wing tip vortex is no longer considered a threat? I also thought the tower had a duty to provide us with the minimum separation. It disturbs me that other crews would not even consider the safety factors which dictate the reasons for heavy and light aircraft separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PIC OF ACR MLG QUESTIONS WAKE TURBULENCE SEPARATION CRITERION AS USED IN LAX.
Narrative: I WAS APCHING THE TKOF POINT AT LAX, RWY 24L. THE PLANE IN FRONT OF ME WAS A WDB. THE WIND WAS 240/10. I FELT IT WAS PRUDENT TO ASK FOR EITHER A 2 MINUTE DELAY OR 5 MI IN TRAIL. I WAS TOLD BY THE TWR TO CLEAR THE RWY AND TAXI TO THE OTHER SIDE WHICH I PERCEIVE AS A FORM OF PUNISHMENT FOR ASKING. A MLG WAS CLRED FOR AN IMMEDIATE TKOF BEHIND ME. I TIMED IT AT 1 MINUTE AND 40 SECONDS FROM THE START OF THE WDB ROLL. AN LGT WAS THEN CLRED FOR TKOF. I THEN ASKED FOR THE REASON I WAS BEING DELAYED. I WAS TOLD I HAD ASKED A 5 MI SEPARATION. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF WING TIP VORTEX IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED A THREAT? I ALSO THOUGHT THE TWR HAD A DUTY TO PROVIDE US WITH THE MINIMUM SEPARATION. IT DISTURBS ME THAT OTHER CREWS WOULD NOT EVEN CONSIDER THE SAFETY FACTORS WHICH DICTATE THE REASONS FOR HEAVY AND LIGHT ACFT SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.