|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||0601 To 1200|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : jot|
airport : arr
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 4000|
msl bound upper : 4000
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : ord|
|Operator||general aviation : instructional|
|Make Model Name||Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear|
|Flight Phase||climbout : intermediate altitude|
|Function||instruction : instructor|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
pilot : cfi
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 25|
flight time total : 500
flight time type : 25
|Function||flight crew : single pilot|
instruction : trainee
|Qualification||pilot : student|
|Anomaly||other anomaly other|
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
|Consequence||faa : reviewed incident with flight crew|
|Primary Problem||ATC Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||other|
This report is being filed in response to the alleged claim by the ord TRACON that the aircraft I was plting entered the chicago TCA west/O authorization on 9/sat/88. On the morning of 9/sat/88 my student (a private pilot) and I conducted a flying lesson from mdw to aur in an small aircraft. For this pilot, the flight was the first in a series of lessons required by the flying club I represent. Upon departing mdw at approximately am CST in excellent VFR conditions, we flew a heading of 210 degrees at 1900' MSL for about 25 SM. This would have placed our aircraft 10-15 SM south of the outer boundary of the chicago TCA. From this point while conducting instructional maneuvers, we took up a southwesterly heading and climbed to 3000' MSL. While at this altitude and in a turning maneuver, I noted our position to be exactly over the town of ellwood, il, well south of joliet, il and again, well beyond the chicago TCA boundary. From this position, I instructed my student to climb to 4000' MSL and to turn to a southwest heading. While climbing, I noted our position to be southwest of joliet and south of the illinois river. At this location we performed a series of stalls. Upon completing these maneuvers, I continued to instruct my student and requested that he fly direct to the joliet VOR (jot). I recall a northeasterly course was required to fly to the VOR. Upon crossing the jot VOR, we immediately turned outbnd on the 330 degree right of jot while transitioning to an approach into aur. Incidentally, while over the VOR I did note other aircraft in the area including one flying a southwesterly course that passed directly below our aircraft. Approximately 12 SM's sse of aur, we contacted the control tower for clearance to land. The tower requested that we report 2 mi south of sugar grove, il, on a left base for runway 27, and also requested our present altitude. I cannot recall our exact altitude at that point, but I believe it was somewhere between 2500 and 3500' MSL. However, I do remember being 4-5 SM's south of sugar grove at about that time. Upon completing our landing on runway 27, the aur control tower requested that we return to call the chicago TRACON for he had just been informed that we had entered the TCA at 4000' MSL west/O prior authorization. I immediately taxied to the tower and called the TRACON. While speaking with whom I believe was the TRACON supervisor, I informed this individual that the route just flown and described as above in this report could never have entered the TCA. I repeatedly described the above scenario to this man and each time I was put on hold. Finally, I insisted that he tell me exactly where this flight had entered the TCA at 4000' MSL since he was so sure of this supposed incursion. He responded, 'over joliet.' whether he meant the joliet VOR, the airport or the city, I informed him as I reviewed my current sectional chart that: 1) our flight did take us over the joliet VOR, but well south of the city of joliet and its airport, and most importantly 2) the chicago TCA does not extend out to either of these 3 locations! I was again put on hold and when he came back on, I was told that there could have been a mistake on either party's part and that the incident would go unreported. I conclude by insisting that this training flight was flown as described above and that it never entered the TCA as charged by the TRACON controllers. Finally, I believe that this incident was brought on by a controller who did not know the exact whereabouts of the lateral boundary of the TCA. Also, the aspect of a mistaken identify could have been a possible factor in this case.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: REPORTER ACCUSED OF FLYING INTO TCA WITHOUT PROPER CLRNC.
Narrative: THIS RPT IS BEING FILED IN RESPONSE TO THE ALLEGED CLAIM BY THE ORD TRACON THAT THE ACFT I WAS PLTING ENTERED THE CHICAGO TCA W/O AUTHORIZATION ON 9/SAT/88. ON THE MORNING OF 9/SAT/88 MY STUDENT (A PVT PLT) AND I CONDUCTED A FLYING LESSON FROM MDW TO AUR IN AN SMA. FOR THIS PLT, THE FLT WAS THE FIRST IN A SERIES OF LESSONS REQUIRED BY THE FLYING CLUB I REPRESENT. UPON DEPARTING MDW AT APPROX AM CST IN EXCELLENT VFR CONDITIONS, WE FLEW A HDG OF 210 DEGS AT 1900' MSL FOR ABOUT 25 SM. THIS WOULD HAVE PLACED OUR ACFT 10-15 SM S OF THE OUTER BOUNDARY OF THE CHICAGO TCA. FROM THIS POINT WHILE CONDUCTING INSTRUCTIONAL MANEUVERS, WE TOOK UP A SOUTHWESTERLY HDG AND CLBED TO 3000' MSL. WHILE AT THIS ALT AND IN A TURNING MANEUVER, I NOTED OUR POS TO BE EXACTLY OVER THE TOWN OF ELLWOOD, IL, WELL S OF JOLIET, IL AND AGAIN, WELL BEYOND THE CHICAGO TCA BOUNDARY. FROM THIS POS, I INSTRUCTED MY STUDENT TO CLB TO 4000' MSL AND TO TURN TO A SW HDG. WHILE CLBING, I NOTED OUR POS TO BE SW OF JOLIET AND S OF THE ILLINOIS RIVER. AT THIS LOCATION WE PERFORMED A SERIES OF STALLS. UPON COMPLETING THESE MANEUVERS, I CONTINUED TO INSTRUCT MY STUDENT AND REQUESTED THAT HE FLY DIRECT TO THE JOLIET VOR (JOT). I RECALL A NORTHEASTERLY COURSE WAS REQUIRED TO FLY TO THE VOR. UPON XING THE JOT VOR, WE IMMEDIATELY TURNED OUTBND ON THE 330 DEG R OF JOT WHILE TRANSITIONING TO AN APCH INTO AUR. INCIDENTALLY, WHILE OVER THE VOR I DID NOTE OTHER ACFT IN THE AREA INCLUDING ONE FLYING A SOUTHWESTERLY COURSE THAT PASSED DIRECTLY BELOW OUR ACFT. APPROX 12 SM'S SSE OF AUR, WE CONTACTED THE CTL TWR FOR CLRNC TO LAND. THE TWR REQUESTED THAT WE RPT 2 MI S OF SUGAR GROVE, IL, ON A LEFT BASE FOR RWY 27, AND ALSO REQUESTED OUR PRESENT ALT. I CANNOT RECALL OUR EXACT ALT AT THAT POINT, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS SOMEWHERE BTWN 2500 AND 3500' MSL. HOWEVER, I DO REMEMBER BEING 4-5 SM'S S OF SUGAR GROVE AT ABOUT THAT TIME. UPON COMPLETING OUR LNDG ON RWY 27, THE AUR CTL TWR REQUESTED THAT WE RETURN TO CALL THE CHICAGO TRACON FOR HE HAD JUST BEEN INFORMED THAT WE HAD ENTERED THE TCA AT 4000' MSL W/O PRIOR AUTHORIZATION. I IMMEDIATELY TAXIED TO THE TWR AND CALLED THE TRACON. WHILE SPEAKING WITH WHOM I BELIEVE WAS THE TRACON SUPVR, I INFORMED THIS INDIVIDUAL THAT THE ROUTE JUST FLOWN AND DESCRIBED AS ABOVE IN THIS RPT COULD NEVER HAVE ENTERED THE TCA. I REPEATEDLY DESCRIBED THE ABOVE SCENARIO TO THIS MAN AND EACH TIME I WAS PUT ON HOLD. FINALLY, I INSISTED THAT HE TELL ME EXACTLY WHERE THIS FLT HAD ENTERED THE TCA AT 4000' MSL SINCE HE WAS SO SURE OF THIS SUPPOSED INCURSION. HE RESPONDED, 'OVER JOLIET.' WHETHER HE MEANT THE JOLIET VOR, THE ARPT OR THE CITY, I INFORMED HIM AS I REVIEWED MY CURRENT SECTIONAL CHART THAT: 1) OUR FLT DID TAKE US OVER THE JOLIET VOR, BUT WELL S OF THE CITY OF JOLIET AND ITS ARPT, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY 2) THE CHICAGO TCA DOES NOT EXTEND OUT TO EITHER OF THESE 3 LOCATIONS! I WAS AGAIN PUT ON HOLD AND WHEN HE CAME BACK ON, I WAS TOLD THAT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE ON EITHER PARTY'S PART AND THAT THE INCIDENT WOULD GO UNREPORTED. I CONCLUDE BY INSISTING THAT THIS TRNING FLT WAS FLOWN AS DESCRIBED ABOVE AND THAT IT NEVER ENTERED THE TCA AS CHARGED BY THE TRACON CTLRS. FINALLY, I BELIEVE THAT THIS INCIDENT WAS BROUGHT ON BY A CTLR WHO DID NOT KNOW THE EXACT WHEREABOUTS OF THE LATERAL BOUNDARY OF THE TCA. ALSO, THE ASPECT OF A MISTAKEN IDENT COULD HAVE BEEN A POSSIBLE FACTOR IN THIS CASE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.