|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1801 To 2400|
|Locale Reference||atc facility : vny|
|Altitude||msl bound lower : 3500|
msl bound upper : 3500
|Controlling Facilities||tracon : lax|
|Operator||general aviation : personal|
|Make Model Name||Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear|
|Flight Phase||cruise other|
|Function||flight crew : single pilot|
|Qualification||pilot : commercial|
pilot : cfi
pilot : instrument
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 10|
flight time total : 760
flight time type : 226
|Affiliation||government : faa|
|Function||controller : approach|
|Qualification||controller : radar|
|Anomaly||non adherence : far|
other anomaly other
|Independent Detector||other controllera|
other flight crewa
|Resolutory Action||none taken : anomaly accepted|
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
|Air Traffic Incident||Pilot Deviation|
This possible TCA incursion arose from a lack of understanding and listening on the controller's part and a lack of thorough understanding of the VFR TCA procedures on my part. I chose the hollywood park route because the marine layer was moving in and can change the WX in a minute. The possibility was there that I may have needed to shoot an ILS into lgb. Being already established with ATC, an instrument clearance would have been easier to get. About 20 NM north of vny I made initial contact with bur approach control on 130.05. I stated my intentions of wanting to transition the la TCA on the vny 140 degree right. A short time later I was instructed to contact approach on 120.4. Apparently the controller on 130.05 didn't relay the information correctly to the controller on 120.4. I became suspicious when ATC suggested descending to a lower appropriate VFR altitude. I asked for a specific altitude, as required by the hollywood park route. They suggested 3500'. The frequency was congested. Not being sure if they were or were not aware of my desires, I didn't think that was a good time to question their instructions. Near the end of their airspace, at the beginning of lax's, bur asked me if I wanted to transition the la TCA in the special use airspace. I told them I wanted to use the vny 140 degree right. I should have told them I wanted the hollywood park route. I asked bur approach if I was cleared through the la TCA. They said no, I didn't need a clearance and that I should look at the chart. I questioned them further and they said fly at 3500', squawk 1201, and monitor 122.75 for pilot to pilot communications. I thought the rules governing the TCA may have changed again. That is why I followed the controller's direction. I did review the TCA chart in the airplane, but I thought right or wrong I should be looking out the window for other traffic. I was taught to: aviate, navigation and communication, in that order. We proceeded on the west side of the vny 140 degree right. Our course put us about in the special flight rules area. We saw the runway at lax under the right wing, but on the northern part of the special flight rules area we may have entered part of the la TCA. Controllers are getting paid to handle traffic 8 hours/day: they should be able to accept and process these routing requests with a little more savior-faire. All things considered we have a great ATC system. Pilots and ATC have established a good work together relationship. We could improve it with better communication, listening and understanding skills.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: TCA PENETRATION WITHOUT CLRNC.
Narrative: THIS POSSIBLE TCA INCURSION AROSE FROM A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND LISTENING ON THE CTLR'S PART AND A LACK OF THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THE VFR TCA PROCS ON MY PART. I CHOSE THE HOLLYWOOD PARK ROUTE BECAUSE THE MARINE LAYER WAS MOVING IN AND CAN CHANGE THE WX IN A MINUTE. THE POSSIBILITY WAS THERE THAT I MAY HAVE NEEDED TO SHOOT AN ILS INTO LGB. BEING ALREADY ESTABLISHED WITH ATC, AN INSTRUMENT CLRNC WOULD HAVE BEEN EASIER TO GET. ABOUT 20 NM N OF VNY I MADE INITIAL CONTACT WITH BUR APCH CTL ON 130.05. I STATED MY INTENTIONS OF WANTING TO TRANSITION THE LA TCA ON THE VNY 140 DEG R. A SHORT TIME LATER I WAS INSTRUCTED TO CONTACT APCH ON 120.4. APPARENTLY THE CTLR ON 130.05 DIDN'T RELAY THE INFO CORRECTLY TO THE CTLR ON 120.4. I BECAME SUSPICIOUS WHEN ATC SUGGESTED DSNDING TO A LOWER APPROPRIATE VFR ALT. I ASKED FOR A SPECIFIC ALT, AS REQUIRED BY THE HOLLYWOOD PARK ROUTE. THEY SUGGESTED 3500'. THE FREQ WAS CONGESTED. NOT BEING SURE IF THEY WERE OR WERE NOT AWARE OF MY DESIRES, I DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS A GOOD TIME TO QUESTION THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. NEAR THE END OF THEIR AIRSPACE, AT THE BEGINNING OF LAX'S, BUR ASKED ME IF I WANTED TO TRANSITION THE LA TCA IN THE SPECIAL USE AIRSPACE. I TOLD THEM I WANTED TO USE THE VNY 140 DEG R. I SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM I WANTED THE HOLLYWOOD PARK ROUTE. I ASKED BUR APCH IF I WAS CLRED THROUGH THE LA TCA. THEY SAID NO, I DIDN'T NEED A CLRNC AND THAT I SHOULD LOOK AT THE CHART. I QUESTIONED THEM FURTHER AND THEY SAID FLY AT 3500', SQUAWK 1201, AND MONITOR 122.75 FOR PLT TO PLT COMS. I THOUGHT THE RULES GOVERNING THE TCA MAY HAVE CHANGED AGAIN. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED THE CTLR'S DIRECTION. I DID REVIEW THE TCA CHART IN THE AIRPLANE, BUT I THOUGHT RIGHT OR WRONG I SHOULD BE LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW FOR OTHER TFC. I WAS TAUGHT TO: AVIATE, NAV AND COM, IN THAT ORDER. WE PROCEEDED ON THE W SIDE OF THE VNY 140 DEG R. OUR COURSE PUT US ABOUT IN THE SPECIAL FLT RULES AREA. WE SAW THE RWY AT LAX UNDER THE RIGHT WING, BUT ON THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SPECIAL FLT RULES AREA WE MAY HAVE ENTERED PART OF THE LA TCA. CTLRS ARE GETTING PAID TO HANDLE TFC 8 HRS/DAY: THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACCEPT AND PROCESS THESE ROUTING REQUESTS WITH A LITTLE MORE SAVIOR-FAIRE. ALL THINGS CONSIDERED WE HAVE A GREAT ATC SYS. PLTS AND ATC HAVE ESTABLISHED A GOOD WORK TOGETHER RELATIONSHIP. WE COULD IMPROVE IT WITH BETTER COM, LISTENING AND UNDERSTANDING SKILLS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.