Air carrier-large transport altitude deviation crossing restriction not met.

Attributes
ACN	80111
Time
Date	198801
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : dqo
State Reference	DE
Altitude	msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 31000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zdc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Route In Use	enroute airway : j8
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time type : 1500
ASRS Report	80111
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 3000
ASRS Report	80117
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

We were eastbound on J-8 to pails intersection. We had approximately 150K of tailwind in cruise (ie, very high ground speed). We were given clearance to cross 25 NM west of dupont VOR at 24000'. The clearance came very late based on our ground speed. We started an immediate descent (from 33000') and had only reached FL310 when 25 NM west of dupont. Center was aware of the problem and gave us much more advanced warning of future crossing restrictions. Since the flight was late in the evening and the winds had been high all day, I feel we could have been given more advanced warning of the first crossing restriction. I have seldom experienced such high tailwinds in flight, so perhaps I could have told center we wanted to start down early or perhaps tell them we would have a problem getting to the crossing altitude. Supplemental information from acn 80117: we were in cruise at FL330 with a 150 KT direct tailwind and didn't plan our descent correctly to meet altitude restriction. Supplemental information from acn 80490: we had a 150K tailwind and didn't plan our descent correctly.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR-LGT ALT DEVIATION CROSSING RESTRICTION NOT MET.

Narrative: WE WERE EBND ON J-8 TO PAILS INTXN. WE HAD APPROX 150K OF TAILWIND IN CRUISE (IE, VERY HIGH GND SPD). WE WERE GIVEN CLRNC TO CROSS 25 NM W OF DUPONT VOR AT 24000'. THE CLRNC CAME VERY LATE BASED ON OUR GND SPD. WE STARTED AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT (FROM 33000') AND HAD ONLY REACHED FL310 WHEN 25 NM W OF DUPONT. CENTER WAS AWARE OF THE PROB AND GAVE US MUCH MORE ADVANCED WARNING OF FUTURE XING RESTRICTIONS. SINCE THE FLT WAS LATE IN THE EVENING AND THE WINDS HAD BEEN HIGH ALL DAY, I FEEL WE COULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN MORE ADVANCED WARNING OF THE FIRST XING RESTRICTION. I HAVE SELDOM EXPERIENCED SUCH HIGH TAILWINDS IN FLT, SO PERHAPS I COULD HAVE TOLD CENTER WE WANTED TO START DOWN EARLY OR PERHAPS TELL THEM WE WOULD HAVE A PROB GETTING TO THE XING ALT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 80117: WE WERE IN CRUISE AT FL330 WITH A 150 KT DIRECT TAILWIND AND DIDN'T PLAN OUR DSCNT CORRECTLY TO MEET ALT RESTRICTION. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 80490: WE HAD A 150K TAILWIND AND DIDN'T PLAN OUR DSCNT CORRECTLY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.