|37000 Feet||Browse and search NASA's
Aviation Safety Reporting System
|Local Time Of Day||1201 To 1800|
|Locale Reference||airport : slc.airport|
|Controlling Facilities||tower : atl.tower|
|Operator||common carrier : air carrier|
|Make Model Name||B737-300|
|Operating Under FAR Part||Part 121|
|Flight Phase||ground : takeoff roll|
ground : preflight
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : first officer|
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 191|
|Affiliation||company : air carrier|
|Function||flight crew : captain|
oversight : pic
|Experience||flight time last 90 days : 185|
flight time type : 5000
|Anomaly||non adherence : published procedure|
|Independent Detector||other flight crewa|
|Resolutory Action||none taken : detected after the fact|
|Problem Areas||Flight Crew Human Performance|
|Primary Problem||Flight Crew Human Performance|
During the arrival into slc; ATC asked if we could accept a different STAR with wasatch (tch) VOR OTS; commenting other aircraft said they were unable. We discussed the requirements and concluded the SKEES2 arrival was RNAV and as far as we knew; we were dispatched as a suffix 'J' flight; which we understood to be RNAV certified. We accepted the new clearance. Prior to commencing the STAR at burley (byi); we talked to clear up some confusion because remark 4 on the skees STAR says DME/DME/IRU or GPS required; but the burley transition text block says some navaids are required for non-GPS equipped aircraft. At first; we both thought we had to be GPS equipped in order to be RNAV certified (/J). We also commented that our training in this area was poor. Because we were landing south and tch VOR was not required for an inertial navigation mix; we agreed we were legal to fly the SKEES2 and continued to an uneventful arrival and landing. We commented how our training and documentation in the fom could be better to help us through situations like this. The turn was uneventful. We were filed and cleared the LEETZ1 RNAV departure. Still thinking /J meant we were legal to fly an RNAV SID; we proceeded to ZZZ without discussion. During our scheduled ground time I reviewed all of slc's stars/sids; at which time I discovered remark 6 on the LEETZ1; which explained tch VOR is required for non-GPS equipped aircraft on the hayden (che) transition; which is what we flew. At no time during the departure in LNAV mode did we receive an 'unable RNAV' message on the FMC; so I concluded the inu's used other navaids to maintain rnp-2 tolerances. Considering company is about to embark on a significant upgrade in navigation (RNAV/VNAV) we need deeper training. We also should have available; in company-issued pubs; an expanded explanation of what equipment requirements make the 300/500 a/J aircraft; and what all of those letters mean in the new ICAO format on the dispatch release. It should also be a remark on the dispatch release and NOTAM packet that non-GPS aircraft are limited on what stars/sids can be flown with tch VOR OTS.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-300 FLT CREW REPORTS DISCOVERING AFTER THE FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT LEGAL TO FLY THE LEETZ1 DEPARTURE WITH TCH OTS.
Narrative: DURING THE ARR INTO SLC; ATC ASKED IF WE COULD ACCEPT A DIFFERENT STAR WITH WASATCH (TCH) VOR OTS; COMMENTING OTHER ACFT SAID THEY WERE UNABLE. WE DISCUSSED THE REQUIREMENTS AND CONCLUDED THE SKEES2 ARR WAS RNAV AND AS FAR AS WE KNEW; WE WERE DISPATCHED AS A SUFFIX 'J' FLT; WHICH WE UNDERSTOOD TO BE RNAV CERTIFIED. WE ACCEPTED THE NEW CLRNC. PRIOR TO COMMENCING THE STAR AT BURLEY (BYI); WE TALKED TO CLR UP SOME CONFUSION BECAUSE REMARK 4 ON THE SKEES STAR SAYS DME/DME/IRU OR GPS REQUIRED; BUT THE BURLEY TRANSITION TEXT BLOCK SAYS SOME NAVAIDS ARE REQUIRED FOR NON-GPS EQUIPPED ACFT. AT FIRST; WE BOTH THOUGHT WE HAD TO BE GPS EQUIPPED IN ORDER TO BE RNAV CERTIFIED (/J). WE ALSO COMMENTED THAT OUR TRAINING IN THIS AREA WAS POOR. BECAUSE WE WERE LNDG S AND TCH VOR WAS NOT REQUIRED FOR AN INERTIAL NAV MIX; WE AGREED WE WERE LEGAL TO FLY THE SKEES2 AND CONTINUED TO AN UNEVENTFUL ARR AND LNDG. WE COMMENTED HOW OUR TRAINING AND DOCUMENTATION IN THE FOM COULD BE BETTER TO HELP US THROUGH SITUATIONS LIKE THIS. THE TURN WAS UNEVENTFUL. WE WERE FILED AND CLRED THE LEETZ1 RNAV DEP. STILL THINKING /J MEANT WE WERE LEGAL TO FLY AN RNAV SID; WE PROCEEDED TO ZZZ WITHOUT DISCUSSION. DURING OUR SCHEDULED GND TIME I REVIEWED ALL OF SLC'S STARS/SIDS; AT WHICH TIME I DISCOVERED REMARK 6 ON THE LEETZ1; WHICH EXPLAINED TCH VOR IS REQUIRED FOR NON-GPS EQUIPPED ACFT ON THE HAYDEN (CHE) TRANSITION; WHICH IS WHAT WE FLEW. AT NO TIME DURING THE DEP IN LNAV MODE DID WE RECEIVE AN 'UNABLE RNAV' MESSAGE ON THE FMC; SO I CONCLUDED THE INU'S USED OTHER NAVAIDS TO MAINTAIN RNP-2 TOLERANCES. CONSIDERING COMPANY IS ABOUT TO EMBARK ON A SIGNIFICANT UPGRADE IN NAV (RNAV/VNAV) WE NEED DEEPER TRAINING. WE ALSO SHOULD HAVE AVAILABLE; IN COMPANY-ISSUED PUBS; AN EXPANDED EXPLANATION OF WHAT EQUIP REQUIREMENTS MAKE THE 300/500 A/J ACFT; AND WHAT ALL OF THOSE LETTERS MEAN IN THE NEW ICAO FORMAT ON THE DISPATCH RELEASE. IT SHOULD ALSO BE A REMARK ON THE DISPATCH RELEASE AND NOTAM PACKET THAT NON-GPS ACFT ARE LIMITED ON WHAT STARS/SIDS CAN BE FLOWN WITH TCH VOR OTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.