<< >> NASA ASRS Report 783199, April 2008

An air carrier aircraft approaching ramms intersection on the den ramms arrival was given vector off course prior to ramms and missed altitude and speed restrs because the autoplt remained engaged.

Attributes
ACN	783199
Time
Date	200804
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : den.airport
State Reference	CO
Altitude	msl single value : 17000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zdv.artcc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Airbus Industrie Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	arrival star : pamms
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time type : 2500
ASRS Report	783199
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : insufficient time
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance

Narrative:

ATC gave a vector off course for spacing just prior to arrival fix. We could not get the crossing restr to enter properly after being reclred direct raams. I remained in a selected descent and the computer showed we were going to make the restr ok. We only had a few mi and maybe 2 mins to meet the restr. By the time I realized the computer was giving bad information and I reacted; I was not able to meet the restr. Consequently; when trying to meet the altitude; the speed increased; therefore; I missed both altitude and speed. Do not trust the automation. Always back up and verify the descent with the 3:1 rule.

Related reports:

• Near midair collision. Air carrier landing rollout saw cross...
• Crew on aircraft X at sea were cleared to runway 16 at inter...

	Enter your search terms Submit search form
	Web www.37000feet.com

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR ACFT APCHING RAMMS INTXN ON THE DEN RAMMS ARR WAS GIVEN VECTOR OFF COURSE PRIOR TO RAMMS AND MISSED ALT AND SPD RESTRS BECAUSE THE AUTOPLT REMAINED ENGAGED.

Narrative: ATC GAVE A VECTOR OFF COURSE FOR SPACING JUST PRIOR TO ARR FIX. WE COULD NOT GET THE XING RESTR TO ENTER PROPERLY AFTER BEING RECLRED DIRECT RAAMS. I REMAINED IN A SELECTED DSCNT AND THE COMPUTER SHOWED WE WERE GOING TO MAKE THE RESTR OK. WE ONLY HAD A FEW MI AND MAYBE 2 MINS TO MEET THE RESTR. BY THE TIME I REALIZED THE COMPUTER WAS GIVING BAD INFO AND I REACTED; I WAS NOT ABLE TO MEET THE RESTR. CONSEQUENTLY; WHEN TRYING TO MEET THE ALT; THE SPD INCREASED; THEREFORE; I MISSED BOTH ALT AND SPD. DO NOT TRUST THE AUTOMATION. ALWAYS BACK UP AND VERIFY THE DSCNT WITH THE 3:1 RULE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.