DH8B crew may have entered ZSE airspace without coordination with ZSE controller.

Attributes
ACN	616760
Time
Date	200404
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0001 To 0600
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lmt.airport
State Reference	WA
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 2000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Dawn
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zse.artcc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Dash 8-200
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : takeoff climbout : initial ground : taxi ground : takeoff roll
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : cfi
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 1820 flight time type : 1200
ASRS Report	616760
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Ambiguous
Air Traffic Incident	Inter Facility Coordination Failure

Narrative:

Clearance was received from ground controller about 20 mins prior to departure. Tower does not open till XB00 in lmt and clearance was received at XA40 with no restrs (ie, hold for release). Taxi began at XA55 and was announced on CTAF, then announced for takeoff at XA59. Tower responded to this stating he was opening in 1 min. We assumed at this point that we were cleared into center's airspace and takeoff was made. Upon contacting ZSE, we were queried on whether we had received clearance, to which we responded that we had received it from lmt ground. That was the end of the issue but we felt at the time as though we should have checked with center before departure. I believe that the ground controller should not have given us the clearance or at least made it clear that we were not released. In the future, the best thing will be to contact center any time the tower is not operational, even if we are relaying through the closed tower controller.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DH8B CREW MAY HAVE ENTERED ZSE AIRSPACE WITHOUT COORD WITH ZSE CTLR.

Narrative: CLRNC WAS RECEIVED FROM GND CTLR ABOUT 20 MINS PRIOR TO DEP. TWR DOES NOT OPEN TILL XB00 IN LMT AND CLRNC WAS RECEIVED AT XA40 WITH NO RESTRS (IE, HOLD FOR RELEASE). TAXI BEGAN AT XA55 AND WAS ANNOUNCED ON CTAF, THEN ANNOUNCED FOR TKOF AT XA59. TWR RESPONDED TO THIS STATING HE WAS OPENING IN 1 MIN. WE ASSUMED AT THIS POINT THAT WE WERE CLRED INTO CTR'S AIRSPACE AND TKOF WAS MADE. UPON CONTACTING ZSE, WE WERE QUERIED ON WHETHER WE HAD RECEIVED CLRNC, TO WHICH WE RESPONDED THAT WE HAD RECEIVED IT FROM LMT GND. THAT WAS THE END OF THE ISSUE BUT WE FELT AT THE TIME AS THOUGH WE SHOULD HAVE CHKED WITH CTR BEFORE DEP. I BELIEVE THAT THE GND CTLR SHOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN US THE CLRNC OR AT LEAST MADE IT CLR THAT WE WERE NOT RELEASED. IN THE FUTURE, THE BEST THING WILL BE TO CONTACT CTR ANY TIME THE TWR IS NOT OPERATIONAL, EVEN IF WE ARE RELAYING THROUGH THE CLOSED TWR CTLR.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.