Narrative:

While on the trake 8 arrival into stl airport, the first officer was the PF and I was the captain handling the PNF duties. We were flying an FMS equipped aircraft and the crew was FMS certified and current. Shortly after passing sgf VORTAC, ZKC cleared us directly to kayla intersection and cleared us to cross kayla at 11000 ft and 250 KTS. Shortly before the top of descent point to meet that clearance, we experienced an FMS map failure that blanked both navigation displays. I notified ATC of the FMS failure and stated that we were unable to navigation direct to kayla. The center controller amended our clearance to proceed direct to ftz VORTAC but did not restate any altitude airspeed restrs. The first officer continued flying the aircraft while I worked through the FMS map failure. The trake 8 arrival has a unique feature where it idents kayla intersection as kaylak/kayla arc (11 DME arc off of ftz). When I got done working through the FMS map failure and got back in the loop, I could see that we were not going to cross the kayla arc at the altitude and speed given in the previous clearance without some help from spoilers. I reminded the first officer of the crossing clearance. He stated that he had known for some time that we would be high and fast at the kayla arc. He said that when we received direct ftz after the FMS failure that the controller did not restate the descent clearance, so it no longer was applicable. It was my opinion that though we were no longer going directly to kayla intersection we were going to cross the kayla arc as we proceeded directly to ftz. The first officer reminded me that frequently while arriving on the trake 8 the practice of ATC is to give a shortcut direct to ftz and they then give a crossing clearance that specifically states the kayla arc. I agreed with him on this and we continued the descent without the use of spoilers and crossed the kayla arc a bit high and 70 KTS fast. As we crossed the kayla arc, ZKC handed us off to stl approach who gave us further descent to 7000 ft. Neither ZKC nor stl approach said anything about our altitude or speed deviation and there was no traffic conflict observed. There was no other traffic on the TCASII display within the 14 NM displayed range. As the day went on, I continued to think about the situation. I have flown the trake 8 arrival probably 1000 times or more in the 14 yrs that I have been flying in and out of stl. ZKC routinely gives clrncs either directly to ftz or a different radial than the published radial on the trake 8. When they do this first they then give descent clearance so there is no question about the crossing restr. As it would happen, later the same day while again on the trake 8 arrival, we were given a descent clearance to cross kayla at 11000 ft and 250 KTS. A short time later we were given a short cut directly to ftz. We were no longer going to cross kayla intersection. Same situation as the previous flight. I asked the controller if our clearance was to now cross the kayla arc with the previous restrs. He stated yes that the crossing clearance remained the same. When he gave us the short cut direct to ftz he did not restate any crossing restrs. The controller obviously felt that clearance to cross kayla was to be interpreted as kayla intersection of kayla arc and felt no need to restate the descent clearance. The aim states that when the route or altitude in a previously issued clearance is amended, the controller will restate applicable altitude restrs. Based on this, I do not think that we were in violation of our clearance when we crossed kayla arc high and fast on our first arrival since the controller did not restate the crossing clearance. It does seem that based on our experience on the second arrival that day that the ZKC controllers may not feel a need to restate a descent clearance since kayla and kayla arc are one in the same in their mind.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MD80 CREW DID NOT OBSERVE STAR ALT AND SPD XING RESTRS AFTER THE CTLR ISSUED A NEW CLRNC.

Narrative: WHILE ON THE TRAKE 8 ARR INTO STL ARPT, THE FO WAS THE PF AND I WAS THE CAPT HANDLING THE PNF DUTIES. WE WERE FLYING AN FMS EQUIPPED ACFT AND THE CREW WAS FMS CERTIFIED AND CURRENT. SHORTLY AFTER PASSING SGF VORTAC, ZKC CLRED US DIRECTLY TO KAYLA INTXN AND CLRED US TO CROSS KAYLA AT 11000 FT AND 250 KTS. SHORTLY BEFORE THE TOP OF DSCNT POINT TO MEET THAT CLRNC, WE EXPERIENCED AN FMS MAP FAILURE THAT BLANKED BOTH NAV DISPLAYS. I NOTIFIED ATC OF THE FMS FAILURE AND STATED THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO NAV DIRECT TO KAYLA. THE CTR CTLR AMENDED OUR CLRNC TO PROCEED DIRECT TO FTZ VORTAC BUT DID NOT RESTATE ANY ALT AIRSPD RESTRS. THE FO CONTINUED FLYING THE ACFT WHILE I WORKED THROUGH THE FMS MAP FAILURE. THE TRAKE 8 ARR HAS A UNIQUE FEATURE WHERE IT IDENTS KAYLA INTXN AS KAYLAK/KAYLA ARC (11 DME ARC OFF OF FTZ). WHEN I GOT DONE WORKING THROUGH THE FMS MAP FAILURE AND GOT BACK IN THE LOOP, I COULD SEE THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO CROSS THE KAYLA ARC AT THE ALT AND SPD GIVEN IN THE PREVIOUS CLRNC WITHOUT SOME HELP FROM SPOILERS. I REMINDED THE FO OF THE XING CLRNC. HE STATED THAT HE HAD KNOWN FOR SOME TIME THAT WE WOULD BE HIGH AND FAST AT THE KAYLA ARC. HE SAID THAT WHEN WE RECEIVED DIRECT FTZ AFTER THE FMS FAILURE THAT THE CTLR DID NOT RESTATE THE DSCNT CLRNC, SO IT NO LONGER WAS APPLICABLE. IT WAS MY OPINION THAT THOUGH WE WERE NO LONGER GOING DIRECTLY TO KAYLA INTXN WE WERE GOING TO CROSS THE KAYLA ARC AS WE PROCEEDED DIRECTLY TO FTZ. THE FO REMINDED ME THAT FREQUENTLY WHILE ARRIVING ON THE TRAKE 8 THE PRACTICE OF ATC IS TO GIVE A SHORTCUT DIRECT TO FTZ AND THEY THEN GIVE A XING CLRNC THAT SPECIFICALLY STATES THE KAYLA ARC. I AGREED WITH HIM ON THIS AND WE CONTINUED THE DSCNT WITHOUT THE USE OF SPOILERS AND CROSSED THE KAYLA ARC A BIT HIGH AND 70 KTS FAST. AS WE CROSSED THE KAYLA ARC, ZKC HANDED US OFF TO STL APCH WHO GAVE US FURTHER DSCNT TO 7000 FT. NEITHER ZKC NOR STL APCH SAID ANYTHING ABOUT OUR ALT OR SPD DEV AND THERE WAS NO TFC CONFLICT OBSERVED. THERE WAS NO OTHER TFC ON THE TCASII DISPLAY WITHIN THE 14 NM DISPLAYED RANGE. AS THE DAY WENT ON, I CONTINUED TO THINK ABOUT THE SIT. I HAVE FLOWN THE TRAKE 8 ARR PROBABLY 1000 TIMES OR MORE IN THE 14 YRS THAT I HAVE BEEN FLYING IN AND OUT OF STL. ZKC ROUTINELY GIVES CLRNCS EITHER DIRECTLY TO FTZ OR A DIFFERENT RADIAL THAN THE PUBLISHED RADIAL ON THE TRAKE 8. WHEN THEY DO THIS FIRST THEY THEN GIVE DSCNT CLRNC SO THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THE XING RESTR. AS IT WOULD HAPPEN, LATER THE SAME DAY WHILE AGAIN ON THE TRAKE 8 ARR, WE WERE GIVEN A DSCNT CLRNC TO CROSS KAYLA AT 11000 FT AND 250 KTS. A SHORT TIME LATER WE WERE GIVEN A SHORT CUT DIRECTLY TO FTZ. WE WERE NO LONGER GOING TO CROSS KAYLA INTXN. SAME SIT AS THE PREVIOUS FLT. I ASKED THE CTLR IF OUR CLRNC WAS TO NOW CROSS THE KAYLA ARC WITH THE PREVIOUS RESTRS. HE STATED YES THAT THE XING CLRNC REMAINED THE SAME. WHEN HE GAVE US THE SHORT CUT DIRECT TO FTZ HE DID NOT RESTATE ANY XING RESTRS. THE CTLR OBVIOUSLY FELT THAT CLRNC TO CROSS KAYLA WAS TO BE INTERPED AS KAYLA INTXN OF KAYLA ARC AND FELT NO NEED TO RESTATE THE DSCNT CLRNC. THE AIM STATES THAT WHEN THE RTE OR ALT IN A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED CLRNC IS AMENDED, THE CTLR WILL RESTATE APPLICABLE ALT RESTRS. BASED ON THIS, I DO NOT THINK THAT WE WERE IN VIOLATION OF OUR CLRNC WHEN WE CROSSED KAYLA ARC HIGH AND FAST ON OUR FIRST ARR SINCE THE CTLR DID NOT RESTATE THE XING CLRNC. IT DOES SEEM THAT BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE ON THE SECOND ARR THAT DAY THAT THE ZKC CTLRS MAY NOT FEEL A NEED TO RESTATE A DSCNT CLRNC SINCE KAYLA AND KAYLA ARC ARE ONE IN THE SAME IN THEIR MIND.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.