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A B727-200 flight crew questions ATC about their assigned heading which was inappropriate for a radial intercept on the cince arrival into cvg, ky.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 538107 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200201 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | navaid : ape.vortac |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl single value : 3500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other vortac |
| Flight Phase | cruise : level |
| Route In Use | arrival : on vectors arrival star : cince 4 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | controller military : 10 controller radar : 13 flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 4500 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 538107 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to original clearance |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Aircraft ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
During our flight from syracuse, ny, to cincinnati, oh, we were given a heading and told to join the cince 4 arrival southwest of ape. We are a B727/a airplane and flew the assigned heading. We passed only 6 DME to the south of the VOR. Upon station passage it appeared on our instruments that the heading we were assigned would not intercept the 248 degree radial out of ape. I then queried the controller and asked if we could join the arrival. He informed me that we had not done what he had asked us to do then gave us permission to join. Nothing further was said by either us or the controller. Somehow there was a miscom between this controller and our airplane. I have noticed that recently there have been many more inquiries about our navigation using /a equipment. Maybe the controllers are seeing more FMS equipment and are not quite as used to the limited navigation equipment of a /a airplane anymore. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the first officer felt that this was not 'a big deal' but felt that ATC should have been aware of the aircraft's navigation confign and simply cleared them direct to the VOR if that was what he had wanted.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B727-200 FLC QUESTIONS ATC ABOUT THEIR ASSIGNED HDG WHICH WAS INAPPROPRIATE FOR A RADIAL INTERCEPT ON THE CINCE ARR INTO CVG, KY.
Narrative: DURING OUR FLT FROM SYRACUSE, NY, TO CINCINNATI, OH, WE WERE GIVEN A HDG AND TOLD TO JOIN THE CINCE 4 ARR SW OF APE. WE ARE A B727/A AIRPLANE AND FLEW THE ASSIGNED HDG. WE PASSED ONLY 6 DME TO THE S OF THE VOR. UPON STATION PASSAGE IT APPEARED ON OUR INSTS THAT THE HDG WE WERE ASSIGNED WOULD NOT INTERCEPT THE 248 DEG RADIAL OUT OF APE. I THEN QUERIED THE CTLR AND ASKED IF WE COULD JOIN THE ARR. HE INFORMED ME THAT WE HAD NOT DONE WHAT HE HAD ASKED US TO DO THEN GAVE US PERMISSION TO JOIN. NOTHING FURTHER WAS SAID BY EITHER US OR THE CTLR. SOMEHOW THERE WAS A MISCOM BTWN THIS CTLR AND OUR AIRPLANE. I HAVE NOTICED THAT RECENTLY THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MORE INQUIRIES ABOUT OUR NAV USING /A EQUIP. MAYBE THE CTLRS ARE SEEING MORE FMS EQUIP AND ARE NOT QUITE AS USED TO THE LIMITED NAV EQUIP OF A /A AIRPLANE ANYMORE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE FO FELT THAT THIS WAS NOT 'A BIG DEAL' BUT FELT THAT ATC SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE ACFT'S NAV CONFIGN AND SIMPLY CLRED THEM DIRECT TO THE VOR IF THAT WAS WHAT HE HAD WANTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.