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MD80 captain refused a 'position and hold' clearance that the controller issued with a 4 or 5 min delay in position.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 538034 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200202 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : tpa.airport |
| State Reference | FL |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | ground : position and hold |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 538034 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance FAA |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : tpa.tower |
Narrative:
As we were ready to depart runway 36L at tpa this morning, the tower controller said to taxi into position and hold you'll depart in four to five mins. I immediately refused to situation on the numbers for several mins. I didn't think it was a smart thing to do. We/I was very polite, but you could tell that displeasure was in the air. No one was on final that I could see. Sky was overcast and visibility ok. We sat and sat. Many other departures were allowed to depart on runway 36R on the east side of the airport. Jax center was not the delay in accepting us by any means because even on climbout I asked if they were holding guys on the ground for northbound departure. Years ago in lax an accident occurred due to one aircraft landed on another. Not all that long ago I recall in dfw I heard of one aircraft on the hold while another passed right over him and landed on runway 17C. Tpa is not the only airport that attempts to put me on the hold and then stay there. What are the rules. It is obvious that when you refuse the clearance you do not make friends.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CAPT REFUSED A 'POS AND HOLD' CLRNC THAT THE CTLR ISSUED WITH A 4 OR 5 MIN DELAY IN POS.
Narrative: AS WE WERE READY TO DEPART RWY 36L AT TPA THIS MORNING, THE TWR CTLR SAID TO TAXI INTO POS AND HOLD YOU'LL DEPART IN FOUR TO FIVE MINS. I IMMEDIATELY REFUSED TO SIT ON THE NUMBERS FOR SEVERAL MINS. I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A SMART THING TO DO. WE/I WAS VERY POLITE, BUT YOU COULD TELL THAT DISPLEASURE WAS IN THE AIR. NO ONE WAS ON FINAL THAT I COULD SEE. SKY WAS OVERCAST AND VIS OK. WE SAT AND SAT. MANY OTHER DEPS WERE ALLOWED TO DEPART ON RWY 36R ON THE E SIDE OF THE ARPT. JAX CTR WAS NOT THE DELAY IN ACCEPTING US BY ANY MEANS BECAUSE EVEN ON CLIMBOUT I ASKED IF THEY WERE HOLDING GUYS ON THE GND FOR NBOUND DEP. YEARS AGO IN LAX AN ACCIDENT OCCURRED DUE TO ONE ACFT LANDED ON ANOTHER. NOT ALL THAT LONG AGO I RECALL IN DFW I HEARD OF ONE ACFT ON THE HOLD WHILE ANOTHER PASSED RIGHT OVER HIM AND LANDED ON RWY 17C. TPA IS NOT THE ONLY ARPT THAT ATTEMPTS TO PUT ME ON THE HOLD AND THEN STAY THERE. WHAT ARE THE RULES. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT WHEN YOU REFUSE THE CLRNC YOU DO NOT MAKE FRIENDS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.