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A320 flight crew questioned if airport in sight is good enough for runway in sight for visual approach clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 528628 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200112 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : dtw.airport |
| State Reference | MI |
| Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : dtw.tower tower : zzz.tower |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A320 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 528628 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : became reoriented |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | FAA Flight Crew Human Performance Weather Environmental Factor |
| Primary Problem | FAA |
Narrative:
On a visual approach to runway 3L dtw. Very unusual runway confign. This runway is used almost exclusively for departures. About 6 mi out, approach asked if we had runway 3L in sight. 'No,' we replied. A small scattered cloud at 3000 ft was perfectly placed between me and the runway. At about 5 mi out, the controller again asked if we had the runway. We replied, 'no.' a few seconds later, I got a visual on runway 4R, and told the first officer to call the airport (not the runway) in sight. We were then cleared for a visual to runway 3L. We were 4-5 mi out, in good VMC conditions. I had an FAA safety consultant on the jump seat. He stated he did not think we had the runway in sight when we called the airport in sight. True, but I knew where runway 4R was, and I knew where runway 3L would be in about 10 seconds. Question, if you call airport in sight, and are cleared for a visual to a specific runway, and that runway is not yet in sight, is that a problem? Runway 3L was in sight about 15 seconds later, at about 4-5 mi from end of runway.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A320 FLC QUESTIONED IF ARPT IN SIGHT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR RWY IN SIGHT FOR VISUAL APCH CLRNC.
Narrative: ON A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 3L DTW. VERY UNUSUAL RWY CONFIGN. THIS RWY IS USED ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY FOR DEPS. ABOUT 6 MI OUT, APCH ASKED IF WE HAD RWY 3L IN SIGHT. 'NO,' WE REPLIED. A SMALL SCATTERED CLOUD AT 3000 FT WAS PERFECTLY PLACED BTWN ME AND THE RWY. AT ABOUT 5 MI OUT, THE CTLR AGAIN ASKED IF WE HAD THE RWY. WE REPLIED, 'NO.' A FEW SECONDS LATER, I GOT A VISUAL ON RWY 4R, AND TOLD THE FO TO CALL THE ARPT (NOT THE RWY) IN SIGHT. WE WERE THEN CLRED FOR A VISUAL TO RWY 3L. WE WERE 4-5 MI OUT, IN GOOD VMC CONDITIONS. I HAD AN FAA SAFETY CONSULTANT ON THE JUMP SEAT. HE STATED HE DID NOT THINK WE HAD THE RWY IN SIGHT WHEN WE CALLED THE ARPT IN SIGHT. TRUE, BUT I KNEW WHERE RWY 4R WAS, AND I KNEW WHERE RWY 3L WOULD BE IN ABOUT 10 SECONDS. QUESTION, IF YOU CALL ARPT IN SIGHT, AND ARE CLRED FOR A VISUAL TO A SPECIFIC RWY, AND THAT RWY IS NOT YET IN SIGHT, IS THAT A PROB? RWY 3L WAS IN SIGHT ABOUT 15 SECONDS LATER, AT ABOUT 4-5 MI FROM END OF RWY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.