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An ERJ145 flight crew flies 15 NM on their holding pattern which causes the controller to inquire as to why so far, expecting a 10 NM leg at helon, ny.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 528385 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200110 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : helon |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl single value : 16000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Marginal |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 145 ER&LR |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | descent : holding |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 660 |
| ASRS Report | 528385 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | airspace violation : exit inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter other non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance Weather Airspace Structure |
| Primary Problem | Weather |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Due to traffic congestion and WX in the new york area, our flight was instructed to hold at helon intersection for approximately 45 mins. Our last clearance before was direct helon from the syr VOR area. Hold was entered in FMS as published and FMS showed parallel entry. Information entered was verified by both captain and first officer as accurate. After entry over helon, coordination was being planned with company, fuel burn, time left, etc. Outbound on parallel entry, ATC informed to go ahead and turn inbound to the published holding pattern. A couple of turns later, ATC inquired why we went outbound for 15 mi instead of published. Verified FMS again and still showed 1 1/2 min turns (above 14000 ft) and everything accurate. Eventually left hold and proceeded to ewr. There was a fairly strong tailwind associated with outbound course of hold. My only guess is because hold is not a mileage track, FMS waited for time allotment and then turned inbound with heavy tailwind. Both crew members were ending a 7 hour 51 min flight day with bad WX at all 5 stops. Duty day was 13 hours long at that point.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ERJ145 FLC FLIES 15 NM ON THEIR HOLDING PATTERN WHICH CAUSES THE CTLR TO INQUIRE AS TO WHY SO FAR, EXPECTING A 10 NM LEG AT HELON, NY.
Narrative: DUE TO TFC CONGESTION AND WX IN THE NEW YORK AREA, OUR FLT WAS INSTRUCTED TO HOLD AT HELON INTXN FOR APPROX 45 MINS. OUR LAST CLRNC BEFORE WAS DIRECT HELON FROM THE SYR VOR AREA. HOLD WAS ENTERED IN FMS AS PUBLISHED AND FMS SHOWED PARALLEL ENTRY. INFO ENTERED WAS VERIFIED BY BOTH CAPT AND FO AS ACCURATE. AFTER ENTRY OVER HELON, COORD WAS BEING PLANNED WITH COMPANY, FUEL BURN, TIME LEFT, ETC. OUTBOUND ON PARALLEL ENTRY, ATC INFORMED TO GO AHEAD AND TURN INBOUND TO THE PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERN. A COUPLE OF TURNS LATER, ATC INQUIRED WHY WE WENT OUTBOUND FOR 15 MI INSTEAD OF PUBLISHED. VERIFIED FMS AGAIN AND STILL SHOWED 1 1/2 MIN TURNS (ABOVE 14000 FT) AND EVERYTHING ACCURATE. EVENTUALLY LEFT HOLD AND PROCEEDED TO EWR. THERE WAS A FAIRLY STRONG TAILWIND ASSOCIATED WITH OUTBOUND COURSE OF HOLD. MY ONLY GUESS IS BECAUSE HOLD IS NOT A MILEAGE TRACK, FMS WAITED FOR TIME ALLOTMENT AND THEN TURNED INBOUND WITH HVY TAILWIND. BOTH CREW MEMBERS WERE ENDING A 7 HR 51 MIN FLT DAY WITH BAD WX AT ALL 5 STOPS. DUTY DAY WAS 13 HRS LONG AT THAT POINT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.