DC9 crew had runway incursion at cyul.

Attributes
ACN	516990
Time
Date	200107
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : cyul.airport
State Reference	PQ
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : cyul.tower tower : zzz.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : taxi
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : cyul.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach landing : go around
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 12500 flight time type : 6000
ASRS Report	516990
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 4500 flight time type : 1300
ASRS Report	516991
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway non adherence : clearance other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : executed go around none taken : detected after the fact none taken : unable
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airport ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance

Narrative:

After holding short of taxiway D, we were instructed to taxi on taxiway a to runway 24L. After joining taxiway a, we were told to hold short of the approach end of runway 28. When the aircraft was stopped we were over the hold short line, but did not realize it because of the late clearance. We were short of the approach end of runway 28, but an approaching aircraft said it appeared to him we were just over the line. When asked by ground control if we were across the hold short line, we responded with, 'we could not see the line from our position.' (the line was very faded). To avoid such a situation, the clearance should have been issued sooner or taxi on a different route. The clearance of 'hold short of an approach end of a runway' is not a normal every day clearance. The ground controller said he could not tell if we were across the line from his point of view. Supplemental information from acn 516991: I understood the clearance to be just like holding short of a taxiway and was not geared to the information of an aircraft on final.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DC9 CREW HAD RWY INCURSION AT CYUL.

Narrative: AFTER HOLDING SHORT OF TXWY D, WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO TAXI ON TXWY A TO RWY 24L. AFTER JOINING TXWY A, WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF THE APCH END OF RWY 28. WHEN THE ACFT WAS STOPPED WE WERE OVER THE HOLD SHORT LINE, BUT DID NOT REALIZE IT BECAUSE OF THE LATE CLRNC. WE WERE SHORT OF THE APCH END OF RWY 28, BUT AN APCHING ACFT SAID IT APPEARED TO HIM WE WERE JUST OVER THE LINE. WHEN ASKED BY GND CTL IF WE WERE ACROSS THE HOLD SHORT LINE, WE RESPONDED WITH, 'WE COULD NOT SEE THE LINE FROM OUR POS.' (THE LINE WAS VERY FADED). TO AVOID SUCH A SIT, THE CLRNC SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISSUED SOONER OR TAXI ON A DIFFERENT RTE. THE CLRNC OF 'HOLD SHORT OF AN APCH END OF A RWY' IS NOT A NORMAL EVERY DAY CLRNC. THE GND CTLR SAID HE COULD NOT TELL IF WE WERE ACROSS THE LINE FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 516991: I UNDERSTOOD THE CLRNC TO BE JUST LIKE HOLDING SHORT OF A TXWY AND WAS NOT GEARED TO THE INFO OF AN ACFT ON FINAL.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.