Narrative:

On apr /xa/01, I was checking out a gentleman in a C172R at sna. He had his private pilot license, which he obtained in teb, and wished to rent aircraft occasionally from the flight school I work at in southern california. The beginning of the flight was uneventful, though the radios were exceptionally congested that day. It took us quite a long time to get a clearance to depart and we were delayed again when we attempted to obtain the necessary clearance to arrive. Pilots were stepping all over each other on the frequency. We were flying back from the practice area when sna tower asked us to descend no lower than 1300 ft and look for helicopter traffic ahead of us. The controller advised us that he would try to give us lower once we reported the traffic in sight. We soon saw the chopper, however, radio congestion prevented us from reporting the traffic in sight. As we got closer to the pattern, I told the gentleman to descend to 850 ft MSL (tpa) before entering the pattern so that I could have a clear view of the traffic already in the pattern. We reported turning downwind. The student's approach to landing was unsatisfactory, so I asked him to go around and try it again. Upon seeing us climb, sna tower asked us to fly 160 degrees and follow cessna traffic ahead of us. My student read back the instructions, however, he failed to mention that we did not have the traffic in sight. Because of the radio congestion I reprimanded the student but did not advise tower that we did not see traffic. Shortly thereafter, we spotted cessna traffic on downwind. Since we had already extended upwind, I assumed this to be our traffic. I also spotted a cessna further ahead of us, but as he was so far away, I assumed that he was not in the pattern. As we turned crosswind and then downwind the tower then reported that we were following the wrong cessna. C172, the aircraft that I had thought too far out to be part of the pattern, was actually the aircraft we were supposed to be following. Regrettably, we had cut him off and interrupted the sequencing. Tower advised us to remain where we were and follow the cessna ahead of us. As the gentleman and I settled into our procedures we momentarily lost sight of the aircraft we were following. In the pattern at sna, traffic ahead tends to blend into the backgnd on downwind and they are very hard to see. I almost always loose sight of them and then they reappear when they turn base. At this time, I was also distraction momentarily by the gentleman's questions about the area. As we passed the end of the runway, I began to look for the traffic we were following. As we got further from the airport, I figured that the traffic must be turning base or, more likely, had turned while I was distraction. I finally spotted a cessna on final, passing our wingtip. Since I had extended more than normal (even for sna) I believed that the aircraft on final was the one we were following. So when my student began his turn to base, I allowed it. At that time I heard the aircraft we were following report his turn to base. I knew at that moment we had the wrong aircraft in sight and so I looked for the traffic I was supposed to follow. Alarmingly, he was right below us, much too close for my comfort. I took control of the aircraft and made a climbing left turn back to the downwind behind C172. Sna tower was, understandably, quite upset with us at this time. Tower asked where we had repositioned ourselves, and then told us to follow C172. We did so, but were too close to land and so we had to go around again. On this last trip around, another aircraft entered the pattern. Tower told him to follow a cessna and the pilot asked which one. He stated very appropriately that it was 'a sea of high wings up there.' we were able to land without further incident and the gentleman was content with the way the flight went. I was, however, quite shaken up by the day's events. It was a challenging day for me for several reasons: there were a lot of like airplanes flying, the frequency was congested, I was with a person I did not know well, and I was in an airplane I did not know well. (The right model is a new airplane and it tends to climb faster and float longer thanthe older C172's. It is also more expensive so most of my students don't fly it and thus I don't usually fly it.) older items that may have contributed to this near miss are that tower was not telling us what number we were in the landing sequence. For example, much of the time tower will say 'you are #3 following a cessna on base and a cessna on final.' then there is no doubt which aircraft you are following, you just count. Since this near miss, I always request to know which number in sequence I am, and if I don't see the other aircraft I request that the tower tell me when to make my turn.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: C172 INSTRUCTOR AND TRAINEE HAD NMAC IN THE TFC PATTERN AT SNA.

Narrative: ON APR /XA/01, I WAS CHKING OUT A GENTLEMAN IN A C172R AT SNA. HE HAD HIS PVT PLT LICENSE, WHICH HE OBTAINED IN TEB, AND WISHED TO RENT ACFT OCCASIONALLY FROM THE FLT SCHOOL I WORK AT IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. THE BEGINNING OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL, THOUGH THE RADIOS WERE EXCEPTIONALLY CONGESTED THAT DAY. IT TOOK US QUITE A LONG TIME TO GET A CLRNC TO DEPART AND WE WERE DELAYED AGAIN WHEN WE ATTEMPTED TO OBTAIN THE NECESSARY CLRNC TO ARRIVE. PLTS WERE STEPPING ALL OVER EACH OTHER ON THE FREQ. WE WERE FLYING BACK FROM THE PRACTICE AREA WHEN SNA TWR ASKED US TO DSND NO LOWER THAN 1300 FT AND LOOK FOR HELI TFC AHEAD OF US. THE CTLR ADVISED US THAT HE WOULD TRY TO GIVE US LOWER ONCE WE RPTED THE TFC IN SIGHT. WE SOON SAW THE CHOPPER, HOWEVER, RADIO CONGESTION PREVENTED US FROM RPTING THE TFC IN SIGHT. AS WE GOT CLOSER TO THE PATTERN, I TOLD THE GENTLEMAN TO DSND TO 850 FT MSL (TPA) BEFORE ENTERING THE PATTERN SO THAT I COULD HAVE A CLR VIEW OF THE TFC ALREADY IN THE PATTERN. WE RPTED TURNING DOWNWIND. THE STUDENT'S APCH TO LNDG WAS UNSATISFACTORY, SO I ASKED HIM TO GO AROUND AND TRY IT AGAIN. UPON SEEING US CLB, SNA TWR ASKED US TO FLY 160 DEGS AND FOLLOW CESSNA TFC AHEAD OF US. MY STUDENT READ BACK THE INSTRUCTIONS, HOWEVER, HE FAILED TO MENTION THAT WE DID NOT HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT. BECAUSE OF THE RADIO CONGESTION I REPRIMANDED THE STUDENT BUT DID NOT ADVISE TWR THAT WE DID NOT SEE TFC. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, WE SPOTTED CESSNA TFC ON DOWNWIND. SINCE WE HAD ALREADY EXTENDED UPWIND, I ASSUMED THIS TO BE OUR TFC. I ALSO SPOTTED A CESSNA FURTHER AHEAD OF US, BUT AS HE WAS SO FAR AWAY, I ASSUMED THAT HE WAS NOT IN THE PATTERN. AS WE TURNED XWIND AND THEN DOWNWIND THE TWR THEN RPTED THAT WE WERE FOLLOWING THE WRONG CESSNA. C172, THE ACFT THAT I HAD THOUGHT TOO FAR OUT TO BE PART OF THE PATTERN, WAS ACTUALLY THE ACFT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOLLOWING. REGRETTABLY, WE HAD CUT HIM OFF AND INTERRUPTED THE SEQUENCING. TWR ADVISED US TO REMAIN WHERE WE WERE AND FOLLOW THE CESSNA AHEAD OF US. AS THE GENTLEMAN AND I SETTLED INTO OUR PROCS WE MOMENTARILY LOST SIGHT OF THE ACFT WE WERE FOLLOWING. IN THE PATTERN AT SNA, TFC AHEAD TENDS TO BLEND INTO THE BACKGND ON DOWNWIND AND THEY ARE VERY HARD TO SEE. I ALMOST ALWAYS LOOSE SIGHT OF THEM AND THEN THEY REAPPEAR WHEN THEY TURN BASE. AT THIS TIME, I WAS ALSO DISTR MOMENTARILY BY THE GENTLEMAN'S QUESTIONS ABOUT THE AREA. AS WE PASSED THE END OF THE RWY, I BEGAN TO LOOK FOR THE TFC WE WERE FOLLOWING. AS WE GOT FURTHER FROM THE ARPT, I FIGURED THAT THE TFC MUST BE TURNING BASE OR, MORE LIKELY, HAD TURNED WHILE I WAS DISTR. I FINALLY SPOTTED A CESSNA ON FINAL, PASSING OUR WINGTIP. SINCE I HAD EXTENDED MORE THAN NORMAL (EVEN FOR SNA) I BELIEVED THAT THE ACFT ON FINAL WAS THE ONE WE WERE FOLLOWING. SO WHEN MY STUDENT BEGAN HIS TURN TO BASE, I ALLOWED IT. AT THAT TIME I HEARD THE ACFT WE WERE FOLLOWING RPT HIS TURN TO BASE. I KNEW AT THAT MOMENT WE HAD THE WRONG ACFT IN SIGHT AND SO I LOOKED FOR THE TFC I WAS SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW. ALARMINGLY, HE WAS RIGHT BELOW US, MUCH TOO CLOSE FOR MY COMFORT. I TOOK CTL OF THE ACFT AND MADE A CLBING L TURN BACK TO THE DOWNWIND BEHIND C172. SNA TWR WAS, UNDERSTANDABLY, QUITE UPSET WITH US AT THIS TIME. TWR ASKED WHERE WE HAD REPOSITIONED OURSELVES, AND THEN TOLD US TO FOLLOW C172. WE DID SO, BUT WERE TOO CLOSE TO LAND AND SO WE HAD TO GO AROUND AGAIN. ON THIS LAST TRIP AROUND, ANOTHER ACFT ENTERED THE PATTERN. TWR TOLD HIM TO FOLLOW A CESSNA AND THE PLT ASKED WHICH ONE. HE STATED VERY APPROPRIATELY THAT IT WAS 'A SEA OF HIGH WINGS UP THERE.' WE WERE ABLE TO LAND WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT AND THE GENTLEMAN WAS CONTENT WITH THE WAY THE FLT WENT. I WAS, HOWEVER, QUITE SHAKEN UP BY THE DAY'S EVENTS. IT WAS A CHALLENGING DAY FOR ME FOR SEVERAL REASONS: THERE WERE A LOT OF LIKE AIRPLANES FLYING, THE FREQ WAS CONGESTED, I WAS WITH A PERSON I DID NOT KNOW WELL, AND I WAS IN AN AIRPLANE I DID NOT KNOW WELL. (THE R MODEL IS A NEW AIRPLANE AND IT TENDS TO CLB FASTER AND FLOAT LONGER THANTHE OLDER C172'S. IT IS ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE SO MOST OF MY STUDENTS DON'T FLY IT AND THUS I DON'T USUALLY FLY IT.) OLDER ITEMS THAT MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS NEAR MISS ARE THAT TWR WAS NOT TELLING US WHAT NUMBER WE WERE IN THE LNDG SEQUENCE. FOR EXAMPLE, MUCH OF THE TIME TWR WILL SAY 'YOU ARE #3 FOLLOWING A CESSNA ON BASE AND A CESSNA ON FINAL.' THEN THERE IS NO DOUBT WHICH ACFT YOU ARE FOLLOWING, YOU JUST COUNT. SINCE THIS NEAR MISS, I ALWAYS REQUEST TO KNOW WHICH NUMBER IN SEQUENCE I AM, AND IF I DON'T SEE THE OTHER ACFT I REQUEST THAT THE TWR TELL ME WHEN TO MAKE MY TURN.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.