Reports from flight crew of B737 and flight crew of MD80 at ord, TCASII RA and TCASII TA.

Attributes
ACN	451340
Time
Date	199910
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
State Reference	IL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 3000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	ils localizer only : 31c
Flight Phase	climbout : initial
Route In Use	departure sid : mdw4
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : c90.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	MD-80 Super 80
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 25 flight time total : 3000 flight time type : 450
ASRS Report	451340
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
ASRS Report	451610
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance controller : provided flight assist flight crew : became reoriented
Miss Distance	vertical : 500
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

During departure on the mdw 4 at mdw runway 31C, we were given a right turn to 090 degree heading at approximately 1400 ft. Turning through north we were advised by departure control that we had 'pressed' the turn restr to complete all turns by 4 DME. We were at maximum ATOG in a B737-200 and surface winds were at 250 degrees 15 KTS (overshooting). We were flying the 'new' higher flap retraction airspds required by the FAA for the B737. Departure control advised us of another aircraft to the northwest of our position as we rolled out on heading 090 degrees. We advised them that we had the other aircraft in sight. We were instructed to climb to 4000 ft and a turn to a 130 degree heading. No TCASII warnings sounded. My questions are: what is the turn radius of a B737 at the 'new' higher maneuvering airspds, at what wind velocity and direction is the B737 unable to meet the 4 DME restr and finally at maximum ATOG in a B737-200 beginning a turn at 1300 ft how close are you already to the 4 DME restr?

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: RPTS FROM FLC OF B737 AND FLC OF MD80 AT ORD, TCASII RA AND TCASII TA.

Narrative: DURING DEP ON THE MDW 4 AT MDW RWY 31C, WE WERE GIVEN A R TURN TO 090 DEG HDG AT APPROX 1400 FT. TURNING THROUGH N WE WERE ADVISED BY DEP CTL THAT WE HAD 'PRESSED' THE TURN RESTR TO COMPLETE ALL TURNS BY 4 DME. WE WERE AT MAX ATOG IN A B737-200 AND SURFACE WINDS WERE AT 250 DEGS 15 KTS (OVERSHOOTING). WE WERE FLYING THE 'NEW' HIGHER FLAP RETRACTION AIRSPDS REQUIRED BY THE FAA FOR THE B737. DEP CTL ADVISED US OF ANOTHER ACFT TO THE NW OF OUR POS AS WE ROLLED OUT ON HDG 090 DEGS. WE ADVISED THEM THAT WE HAD THE OTHER ACFT IN SIGHT. WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO CLB TO 4000 FT AND A TURN TO A 130 DEG HDG. NO TCASII WARNINGS SOUNDED. MY QUESTIONS ARE: WHAT IS THE TURN RADIUS OF A B737 AT THE 'NEW' HIGHER MANEUVERING AIRSPDS, AT WHAT WIND VELOCITY AND DIRECTION IS THE B737 UNABLE TO MEET THE 4 DME RESTR AND FINALLY AT MAX ATOG IN A B737-200 BEGINNING A TURN AT 1300 FT HOW CLOSE ARE YOU ALREADY TO THE 4 DME RESTR?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.