B757 flight crew receives confusing civet 4 approach clearance.

Attributes
ACN	444191
Time
Date	199907
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl single value : 12000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : sct.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : instrument precision arrival star : civet four
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 2800
ASRS Report	444191
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Airport Airspace Structure
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Deviation
Situations
Chart	approach : civet four

Narrative:

We were on the civet 4 arrival for runway 25L at lax. The new clearance was to descend on the civet 4 arrival to fuelr intersection, then cleared for the ILS runway 25R. The problem is that fuelr is not an IAF for runway 25R. When we programmed the FMC, the fuelr intersection was no where on the legs page for runway 25R. Looking at the map display was no help, because fuelr was superimposed over intxns for runway 25R. This required considerable time to manually determine the position of fuelr in relationship to other intxns for runway 25R. I do not think this was a legal clearance, because fuelr is not an ipf for runway 25R. A better clearance would have been a heading to fly to intercept the localizer after fuelr, or an intersection on runway 25R after fuelr. Also in an FMC aircraft, the VNAV is lost during programming, and the time spent without VNAV information could cause busting of crossing restrs.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B757 FLC RECEIVES CONFUSING CIVET 4 APCH CLRNC.

Narrative: WE WERE ON THE CIVET 4 ARR FOR RWY 25L AT LAX. THE NEW CLRNC WAS TO DSND ON THE CIVET 4 ARR TO FUELR INTXN, THEN CLRED FOR THE ILS RWY 25R. THE PROB IS THAT FUELR IS NOT AN IAF FOR RWY 25R. WHEN WE PROGRAMMED THE FMC, THE FUELR INTXN WAS NO WHERE ON THE LEGS PAGE FOR RWY 25R. LOOKING AT THE MAP DISPLAY WAS NO HELP, BECAUSE FUELR WAS SUPERIMPOSED OVER INTXNS FOR RWY 25R. THIS REQUIRED CONSIDERABLE TIME TO MANUALLY DETERMINE THE POS OF FUELR IN RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER INTXNS FOR RWY 25R. I DO NOT THINK THIS WAS A LEGAL CLRNC, BECAUSE FUELR IS NOT AN IPF FOR RWY 25R. A BETTER CLRNC WOULD HAVE BEEN A HDG TO FLY TO INTERCEPT THE LOC AFTER FUELR, OR AN INTXN ON RWY 25R AFTER FUELR. ALSO IN AN FMC ACFT, THE VNAV IS LOST DURING PROGRAMMING, AND THE TIME SPENT WITHOUT VNAV INFO COULD CAUSE BUSTING OF XING RESTRS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.