Narrative:

I was asked to train a gentleman who just purchased a seneca V from piper. The salesman, myself, and the owner were flying to rdu, then onto michigan from vrb. With 3 people and full fuel, this aircraft is approximately 50 pounds over gross takeoff weight. We departed vrb with an additional 8 bags and 1 set of golf clubs, which clearly put us over gross takeoff weight (approximately 300-400 pounds). I knew better, but rationalizing the salesman's statement of 'I fly with 5 people and full fuel in a seneca and it is fine' I proceeded. Prior to takeoff, I briefed the owner that we were heavy, so no more than 10 degrees of pitch and maintain a high airspeed. At approximately 200 ft AGL, I could tell there was a lot of nose down pressure needed. Briefly, there was not a positive exchange of controls via owner (left seat) to me (right seat) and we fought each other. When I had the plane at approximately 400 ft AGL I ran out of nose down elevator trim. I called tower and requested that we come around to land. We also did not have current plates. This was my first experience outside of the college training environment which consists of good habit patterns and flying by the book. Unfortunately, I did not follow good judgement. Upon my return to michigan, I told the salesman that he needed to get someone else.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: INSTRUCTOR PLT OF A PIPER PA34-200T RETURNED TO LAND AFTER FINDING THAT THE ACFT PITCH CTL WAS EXCESSIVELY TAIL HVY AND KNOWING THAT THE GROSS WT WAS EXCEEDED BY SEVERAL HUNDRED LBS.

Narrative: I WAS ASKED TO TRAIN A GENTLEMAN WHO JUST PURCHASED A SENECA V FROM PIPER. THE SALESMAN, MYSELF, AND THE OWNER WERE FLYING TO RDU, THEN ONTO MICHIGAN FROM VRB. WITH 3 PEOPLE AND FULL FUEL, THIS ACFT IS APPROX 50 LBS OVER GROSS TKOF WT. WE DEPARTED VRB WITH AN ADDITIONAL 8 BAGS AND 1 SET OF GOLF CLUBS, WHICH CLRLY PUT US OVER GROSS TKOF WT (APPROX 300-400 LBS). I KNEW BETTER, BUT RATIONALIZING THE SALESMAN'S STATEMENT OF 'I FLY WITH 5 PEOPLE AND FULL FUEL IN A SENECA AND IT IS FINE' I PROCEEDED. PRIOR TO TKOF, I BRIEFED THE OWNER THAT WE WERE HVY, SO NO MORE THAN 10 DEGS OF PITCH AND MAINTAIN A HIGH AIRSPD. AT APPROX 200 FT AGL, I COULD TELL THERE WAS A LOT OF NOSE DOWN PRESSURE NEEDED. BRIEFLY, THERE WAS NOT A POSITIVE EXCHANGE OF CTLS VIA OWNER (L SEAT) TO ME (R SEAT) AND WE FOUGHT EACH OTHER. WHEN I HAD THE PLANE AT APPROX 400 FT AGL I RAN OUT OF NOSE DOWN ELEVATOR TRIM. I CALLED TWR AND REQUESTED THAT WE COME AROUND TO LAND. WE ALSO DID NOT HAVE CURRENT PLATES. THIS WAS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE OUTSIDE OF THE COLLEGE TRAINING ENVIRONMENT WHICH CONSISTS OF GOOD HABIT PATTERNS AND FLYING BY THE BOOK. UNFORTUNATELY, I DID NOT FOLLOW GOOD JUDGEMENT. UPON MY RETURN TO MICHIGAN, I TOLD THE SALESMAN THAT HE NEEDED TO GET SOMEONE ELSE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.