A gulfstream III is kept too high, FL180 and 4 mi north of the VOR, while on the aspen VOR DME appro...

Attributes
ACN	428960
Time
Date	199902
Day	Fri
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : dbl.vor
State Reference	CO
Altitude	msl bound lower : 14000 msl bound upper : 18000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Weather Elements	Snow Turbulence
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : ase.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Gulfstream III
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other other vortac
Flight Phase	descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	approach : instrument non precision arrival : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 9200 flight time type : 1900
ASRS Report	428960
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance flight crew : executed missed approach other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airport ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : ase.tracon
Airport	other physical facility

Narrative:

We were put on the final approach course for the VOR/DME to aspen, co. Once on the final approach course, you may descend to 14000 ft MSL, at which time you cross dbl VOR at 14000 ft and then proceed down the 164 degree radial to meet various stepdown fixes for the VOR/DME approach to ase. When we were 3-4 mi outside of the VOR, the controller still had us at FL180, and then cleared us for the approach. We started to descend to 14000 ft when we realized there was no way we were going to lose 4000 ft in 3-4 mi to cross dbl at 14000 ft -- especially with a 15 KT tailwind. After passing 17500 ft, we asked the controller if we could go around once in the holding pattern to lose the altitude. He cleared us back up to FL180 and vectored us around again for the approach -- this time in a better position for the approach. Looking back, I think that ATC needs to be better aware that an aircraft like a gulfstream can't lose 4000 ft in a matter of 2-3 mi safely and be expected to shoot the approach effectively. The approach to aspen is tricky enough. It requires that you be configured real early in the approach due to the elevation of the surrounding terrain. If ATC is keeping you a few thousand ft above all published altitudes close in, then they have to realize that bigger aircraft cannot get configured properly for an approach. I recommend that ATC (at ase) at least get the airplanes on the final approach course a little farther out from dbl VOR so that the crew can get the airplane configured so that they can have a reasonable attempt of shooting the approach.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A GULFSTREAM III IS KEPT TOO HIGH, FL180 AND 4 MI N OF THE VOR, WHILE ON THE ASPEN VOR DME APCH AND HAS TO ASK ATC FOR A CIRCLE TO THE N OF THE ASE VOR IN ORDER TO CROSS THE VOR AT 14000 FT FOR THEIR APCH.

Narrative: WE WERE PUT ON THE FINAL APCH COURSE FOR THE VOR/DME TO ASPEN, CO. ONCE ON THE FINAL APCH COURSE, YOU MAY DSND TO 14000 FT MSL, AT WHICH TIME YOU CROSS DBL VOR AT 14000 FT AND THEN PROCEED DOWN THE 164 DEG RADIAL TO MEET VARIOUS STEPDOWN FIXES FOR THE VOR/DME APCH TO ASE. WHEN WE WERE 3-4 MI OUTSIDE OF THE VOR, THE CTLR STILL HAD US AT FL180, AND THEN CLRED US FOR THE APCH. WE STARTED TO DSND TO 14000 FT WHEN WE REALIZED THERE WAS NO WAY WE WERE GOING TO LOSE 4000 FT IN 3-4 MI TO CROSS DBL AT 14000 FT -- ESPECIALLY WITH A 15 KT TAILWIND. AFTER PASSING 17500 FT, WE ASKED THE CTLR IF WE COULD GO AROUND ONCE IN THE HOLDING PATTERN TO LOSE THE ALT. HE CLRED US BACK UP TO FL180 AND VECTORED US AROUND AGAIN FOR THE APCH -- THIS TIME IN A BETTER POS FOR THE APCH. LOOKING BACK, I THINK THAT ATC NEEDS TO BE BETTER AWARE THAT AN ACFT LIKE A GULFSTREAM CAN'T LOSE 4000 FT IN A MATTER OF 2-3 MI SAFELY AND BE EXPECTED TO SHOOT THE APCH EFFECTIVELY. THE APCH TO ASPEN IS TRICKY ENOUGH. IT REQUIRES THAT YOU BE CONFIGURED REAL EARLY IN THE APCH DUE TO THE ELEVATION OF THE SURROUNDING TERRAIN. IF ATC IS KEEPING YOU A FEW THOUSAND FT ABOVE ALL PUBLISHED ALTS CLOSE IN, THEN THEY HAVE TO REALIZE THAT BIGGER ACFT CANNOT GET CONFIGURED PROPERLY FOR AN APCH. I RECOMMEND THAT ATC (AT ASE) AT LEAST GET THE AIRPLANES ON THE FINAL APCH COURSE A LITTLE FARTHER OUT FROM DBL VOR SO THAT THE CREW CAN GET THE AIRPLANE CONFIGURED SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A REASONABLE ATTEMPT OF SHOOTING THE APCH.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

A gulfstream III is kept too high, FL180 and 4 mi north of the VOR, while on the aspen VOR DME approach and has to ask ATC for a circle to the north of the ase VOR in order to cross the VOR at 14000 ft for their approach.