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An iai 1125 astra crew descends out of the class B of sfo while performing a tipp toe visual approach into sfo. PF first officer wanted to avoid clouds at 4000 ft and descended to 3500 ft.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 402650 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199805 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : oak airport : sfo |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : oak |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | IAI1125 (Astra) |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 175 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 2300 |
| ASRS Report | 402650 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Weather |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Aircraft was cleared for the tipp toe visual runway 28L at sfo. Airport was not in sight due to scattered clouds in the area. However, approach controller asked us to call the airport or 'the bridge' (OM) in sight. Bridge was in sight and called. ATC cleared us for the charted visual approach (tipp toe visual, runway 28L). The PF asked me what the appropriate altitude was during this part of the approach. I looked at the plate to see that at 'menlo intersection' about 2 mi ahead the chart says '4000 ft.' as I looked back up, the PF was in a descent to 3500 ft to stay below a cloud ahead of us. We crossed menlo at 3500 ft. The controller then told us that we should have crossed menlo at 4000 ft and I advised him of our need to descend to stay VFR as we were on a 'visual approach.' evidently the 4000 ft crossing restr is meant to keep the aircraft within class B airspace. We may have descended slightly below it. I feel, in retrospect, when it was clear we needed to deviate ATC should have been alerted even though we were on a visual approach. Conclusion: approach chart should state that menlo at 4000 ft (or above) is a minimum altitude. As PIC, I should have been more aware of the PF's intentions. ATC should have been advised that we needed to deviate for WX.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN IAI 1125 ASTRA CREW DSNDS OUT OF THE CLASS B OF SFO WHILE PERFORMING A TIPP TOE VISUAL APCH INTO SFO. PF FO WANTED TO AVOID CLOUDS AT 4000 FT AND DSNDED TO 3500 FT.
Narrative: ACFT WAS CLRED FOR THE TIPP TOE VISUAL RWY 28L AT SFO. ARPT WAS NOT IN SIGHT DUE TO SCATTERED CLOUDS IN THE AREA. HOWEVER, APCH CTLR ASKED US TO CALL THE ARPT OR 'THE BRIDGE' (OM) IN SIGHT. BRIDGE WAS IN SIGHT AND CALLED. ATC CLRED US FOR THE CHARTED VISUAL APCH (TIPP TOE VISUAL, RWY 28L). THE PF ASKED ME WHAT THE APPROPRIATE ALT WAS DURING THIS PART OF THE APCH. I LOOKED AT THE PLATE TO SEE THAT AT 'MENLO INTXN' ABOUT 2 MI AHEAD THE CHART SAYS '4000 FT.' AS I LOOKED BACK UP, THE PF WAS IN A DSCNT TO 3500 FT TO STAY BELOW A CLOUD AHEAD OF US. WE CROSSED MENLO AT 3500 FT. THE CTLR THEN TOLD US THAT WE SHOULD HAVE CROSSED MENLO AT 4000 FT AND I ADVISED HIM OF OUR NEED TO DSND TO STAY VFR AS WE WERE ON A 'VISUAL APCH.' EVIDENTLY THE 4000 FT XING RESTR IS MEANT TO KEEP THE ACFT WITHIN CLASS B AIRSPACE. WE MAY HAVE DSNDED SLIGHTLY BELOW IT. I FEEL, IN RETROSPECT, WHEN IT WAS CLR WE NEEDED TO DEVIATE ATC SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALERTED EVEN THOUGH WE WERE ON A VISUAL APCH. CONCLUSION: APCH CHART SHOULD STATE THAT MENLO AT 4000 FT (OR ABOVE) IS A MINIMUM ALT. AS PIC, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE AWARE OF THE PF'S INTENTIONS. ATC SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT WE NEEDED TO DEVIATE FOR WX.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.