PIC report on inaccurate passenger counts that affect the aircraft's weight and balance figures.

Attributes
ACN	398898
Time
Date	199804
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : atl
State Reference	GA
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : preflight
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 10500 flight time type : 3500
ASRS Report	398898
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : far non adherence other other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

The company proudly noted in its latest operations department newsletter that the problems with weight and balance are over and that passenger figures are correct (it still does not require an onboard passenger count prior to pushback) -- it's not true. On one flight, I was told I was full with 12 first and 128 coach seats. Problem is -- ship has 12 and 137 and all were full (9 off). On another flight, passenger count was off by 4 which was our maximum tolerance. Another person was added and we asked for new paperwork. The new paperwork was off by 3 (within limits), even though we gave them the correct numbers.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: PIC RPT ON INACCURATE PAX COUNTS THAT AFFECT THE ACFT'S WT AND BAL FIGURES.

Narrative: THE COMPANY PROUDLY NOTED IN ITS LATEST OPS DEPT NEWSLETTER THAT THE PROBS WITH WT AND BAL ARE OVER AND THAT PAX FIGURES ARE CORRECT (IT STILL DOES NOT REQUIRE AN ONBOARD PAX COUNT PRIOR TO PUSHBACK) -- IT'S NOT TRUE. ON ONE FLT, I WAS TOLD I WAS FULL WITH 12 FIRST AND 128 COACH SEATS. PROB IS -- SHIP HAS 12 AND 137 AND ALL WERE FULL (9 OFF). ON ANOTHER FLT, PAX COUNT WAS OFF BY 4 WHICH WAS OUR MAX TOLERANCE. ANOTHER PERSON WAS ADDED AND WE ASKED FOR NEW PAPERWORK. THE NEW PAPERWORK WAS OFF BY 3 (WITHIN LIMITS), EVEN THOUGH WE GAVE THEM THE CORRECT NUMBERS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.