<< >> NASA ASRS Report 395350, February 1998

F100 (FK10) PIC concerned with minimal takeoff distance between his aircraft and MD80S ahead on departure. PIC believes distances used by ATC too tight. Pilot infers he sees this type ATC at atl and other airports as well. PIC believes more wake turbulence study needed.

Attributes
ACN	395350
Time
Date	199802
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dfw
State Reference	TX
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Fokker 100
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	climbout : takeoff
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	MD-80 Super 80
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	climbout : initial climbout : takeoff
Route In Use	departure other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
ASRS Report	395350
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

We were cleared for takeoff immediately behind an S80 -- well before his nosewheel lifted. Another aircraft was cleared for takeoff behind us when we were at only 100 KTS, nosewheel clearly on the runway, with a V1 rotation of 134 KTS -- 34 KTS before we would have aborted if necessary to do so. This happens all the time now and appears to be a standard practice at dfw, atl, and other airports. I, and many other pilots, believe this is unsafe and not a good practice. I always wait to commence our takeoff roll only after the aircraft ahead is in the air, but this still sometimes presents a serious wake turbulence problem for the F100 behind S80's and B727's in calm or light winds. These sits need further study, research and a clear set of operational guidelines.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: F100 (FK10) PIC CONCERNED WITH MINIMAL TKOF DISTANCE BTWN HIS ACFT AND MD80S AHEAD ON DEP. PIC BELIEVES DISTANCES USED BY ATC TOO TIGHT. PLT INFERS HE SEES THIS TYPE ATC AT ATL AND OTHER ARPTS AS WELL. PIC BELIEVES MORE WAKE TURB STUDY NEEDED.

Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF IMMEDIATELY BEHIND AN S80 -- WELL BEFORE HIS NOSEWHEEL LIFTED. ANOTHER ACFT WAS CLRED FOR TKOF BEHIND US WHEN WE WERE AT ONLY 100 KTS, NOSEWHEEL CLRLY ON THE RWY, WITH A V1 ROTATION OF 134 KTS -- 34 KTS BEFORE WE WOULD HAVE ABORTED IF NECESSARY TO DO SO. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME NOW AND APPEARS TO BE A STANDARD PRACTICE AT DFW, ATL, AND OTHER ARPTS. I, AND MANY OTHER PLTS, BELIEVE THIS IS UNSAFE AND NOT A GOOD PRACTICE. I ALWAYS WAIT TO COMMENCE OUR TKOF ROLL ONLY AFTER THE ACFT AHEAD IS IN THE AIR, BUT THIS STILL SOMETIMES PRESENTS A SERIOUS WAKE TURB PROB FOR THE F100 BEHIND S80'S AND B727'S IN CALM OR LIGHT WINDS. THESE SITS NEED FURTHER STUDY, RESEARCH AND A CLR SET OF OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.