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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Flight crew of an md super 80 were advised by ATC that they should have crossed the present fix over which they were descending at 8000 ft, not 11000 ft. Flight crew advised that they were expecting that, but had never received that clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 383549 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199710 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : aml airport : dca |
| State Reference | VA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 9800 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 383549 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| ASRS Report | 383550 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance none taken : insufficient time other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | vertical : 1000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were level at 11000 ft. Just prior to crossing armel we were asked by ZDC if we were descending to 8000 ft. We replied that we had not been given that clearance though we were expecting and awaiting it. Center replied to descend to 8000 ft. We began our descent and passing 9800 ft center then called (a different voice I might add) and told us that our crossing restr for 8000 ft was at armel. We replied that we had never been given that clearance. We then got a TA on TCASII. Closest altitude was 1000 ft. I think the problem was the failure of ATC to give us the crossing clearance or, if given, we never received it or confirmed it. Knowing that we should have gotten it according to the STAR I should have requested it when we did not get it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF AN MD SUPER 80 WERE ADVISED BY ATC THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE CROSSED THE PRESENT FIX OVER WHICH THEY WERE DSNDING AT 8000 FT, NOT 11000 FT. FLC ADVISED THAT THEY WERE EXPECTING THAT, BUT HAD NEVER RECEIVED THAT CLRNC.
Narrative: WE WERE LEVEL AT 11000 FT. JUST PRIOR TO XING ARMEL WE WERE ASKED BY ZDC IF WE WERE DSNDING TO 8000 FT. WE REPLIED THAT WE HAD NOT BEEN GIVEN THAT CLRNC THOUGH WE WERE EXPECTING AND AWAITING IT. CTR REPLIED TO DSND TO 8000 FT. WE BEGAN OUR DSCNT AND PASSING 9800 FT CTR THEN CALLED (A DIFFERENT VOICE I MIGHT ADD) AND TOLD US THAT OUR XING RESTR FOR 8000 FT WAS AT ARMEL. WE REPLIED THAT WE HAD NEVER BEEN GIVEN THAT CLRNC. WE THEN GOT A TA ON TCASII. CLOSEST ALT WAS 1000 FT. I THINK THE PROB WAS THE FAILURE OF ATC TO GIVE US THE XING CLRNC OR, IF GIVEN, WE NEVER RECEIVED IT OR CONFIRMED IT. KNOWING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN IT ACCORDING TO THE STAR I SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED IT WHEN WE DID NOT GET IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.