<< >> NASA ASRS Report 366080, April 1997

An air carrier MD88 flight crew complains that an approach controller assigned them a holding pattern at a VOR that was off route and the pattern was not depicted on their high altitude charts or on the SID, STAR or approach charts.

Attributes
ACN	366080
Time
Date	199704
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : sey airport : pvd
State Reference	RI
Altitude	msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000
Environment
Flight Conditions	Mixed
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : pvd
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	MD-88
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	cruise other cruise other other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 600
ASRS Report	366080
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

On way in to pvd, expecting runway 5, informed the runway 23 would be used due to storm over approach corridor. Then informed all approachs were canceled and to expect to hold. Sent to sey VOR to hold as published. Luckily, I knew where sey was after being based at nyc. It was only 5-10 NM away. However, it was not on our cleared route in and no holding pattern appeared on the high charts, stars, sids, or approach plates. Finally got ATC to give us clearance on a radial. We were in continuous moderate turbulence while we attempted to handle ATC's 'from the hip' clearance(?). ATC may have holding patterns depicted on their scopes, but they need to consider what the crew has available, especially for a 2-3 min transit.

Related reports:

• Air carrier PIC complains of getting clearance from approach...
• Air carrier mdt PIC complains of tower controller calling ou...
• First officer of a DC9 complains about approach controller n...
• Controller complains that published approach plates are not ...
• Air carrier first officer complains of approach controller t...
• Approach controller complains that recent combining of FSS i...

	Enter your search terms Submit search form
	Web www.37000feet.com

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ACR MD88 FLC COMPLAINS THAT AN APCH CTLR ASSIGNED THEM A HOLDING PATTERN AT A VOR THAT WAS OFF RTE AND THE PATTERN WAS NOT DEPICTED ON THEIR HIGH ALT CHARTS OR ON THE SID, STAR OR APCH CHARTS.

Narrative: ON WAY IN TO PVD, EXPECTING RWY 5, INFORMED THE RWY 23 WOULD BE USED DUE TO STORM OVER APCH CORRIDOR. THEN INFORMED ALL APCHS WERE CANCELED AND TO EXPECT TO HOLD. SENT TO SEY VOR TO HOLD AS PUBLISHED. LUCKILY, I KNEW WHERE SEY WAS AFTER BEING BASED AT NYC. IT WAS ONLY 5-10 NM AWAY. HOWEVER, IT WAS NOT ON OUR CLRED RTE IN AND NO HOLDING PATTERN APPEARED ON THE HIGH CHARTS, STARS, SIDS, OR APCH PLATES. FINALLY GOT ATC TO GIVE US CLRNC ON A RADIAL. WE WERE IN CONTINUOUS MODERATE TURB WHILE WE ATTEMPTED TO HANDLE ATC'S 'FROM THE HIP' CLRNC(?). ATC MAY HAVE HOLDING PATTERNS DEPICTED ON THEIR SCOPES, BUT THEY NEED TO CONSIDER WHAT THE CREW HAS AVAILABLE, ESPECIALLY FOR A 2-3 MIN TRANSIT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.