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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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First, medium large transport crew claimed they were not given an altitude crossing restr at petis intersection and then ATC complained that aircraft did not make the restr. If given, the aircraft would have had to descend 8800 ft north 16 mi, an impossibility.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 358140 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199701 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : pdz airport : ont |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4200 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : ont tower : ewr |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 358140 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable none taken : insufficient time |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Aircraft was at 13000 ft, 250 KTS, at hitop intersection. Handed off to socal approach. Cleared to 8000 ft. Just prior to pasko, we heard and read back 'cleared to 4200 ft, cleared ILS runway 26L approach to ont.' after crossing petis intersection, NDB. Approach said we missed our 4200 ft crossing restr at petis, but that it was ok. We said that we were not aware of a 4200 ft crossing restr. Approach allowed us 16 NM to lose 8800 ft. This is not possible. In addition, I have never been vectored or cleared for the approach in ont from below the GS (isn't that required?). Ground control had us call socal and we discussed the misunderstanding or miscom. Somehow this arrival must be modified when approachs are in progress to ont to descend aircraft earlier than majek or hitop.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FIRST, MLG CREW CLAIMED THEY WERE NOT GIVEN AN ALT XING RESTR AT PETIS INTXN AND THEN ATC COMPLAINED THAT ACFT DID NOT MAKE THE RESTR. IF GIVEN, THE ACFT WOULD HAVE HAD TO DSND 8800 FT N 16 MI, AN IMPOSSIBILITY.
Narrative: ACFT WAS AT 13000 FT, 250 KTS, AT HITOP INTXN. HANDED OFF TO SOCAL APCH. CLRED TO 8000 FT. JUST PRIOR TO PASKO, WE HEARD AND READ BACK 'CLRED TO 4200 FT, CLRED ILS RWY 26L APCH TO ONT.' AFTER XING PETIS INTXN, NDB. APCH SAID WE MISSED OUR 4200 FT XING RESTR AT PETIS, BUT THAT IT WAS OK. WE SAID THAT WE WERE NOT AWARE OF A 4200 FT XING RESTR. APCH ALLOWED US 16 NM TO LOSE 8800 FT. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. IN ADDITION, I HAVE NEVER BEEN VECTORED OR CLRED FOR THE APCH IN ONT FROM BELOW THE GS (ISN'T THAT REQUIRED?). GND CTL HAD US CALL SOCAL AND WE DISCUSSED THE MISUNDERSTANDING OR MISCOM. SOMEHOW THIS ARR MUST BE MODIFIED WHEN APCHS ARE IN PROGRESS TO ONT TO DSND ACFT EARLIER THAN MAJEK OR HITOP.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.