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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Captain of a B737 delayed descent during a STAR arrival resulting in ATC adjusting the descent altitude in order to bring reporter's aircraft down at a later point than planned. Approach accepted the captain's misunderstanding of the altitudes to which originally cleared by the center controller!
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 356470 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199612 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : sns |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : oak tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : zoa |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 2400 |
| ASRS Report | 356470 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
The captain was flying and I was the PNF, the first officer. ZOA gave us the clearance to cross papee at or below 16000 ft then down to 12000 ft. I read back the clearance and put 12000 ft in the altitude window. Captain confirmed. He started down and crossed papee at 16000 ft, he then leveled off and waited to descend to 12000 ft. Approximately 20 mi after papee he started down. We then were switched to approach control. I checked in and was told to descend to 8000 ft. I read this back. The controller came on and asked me if I was told to cross papee at 16000 ft then to 12000 ft. The captain said he thought it was papee at 16000 ft then jawws to 12000 ft. I told the controller this and he said ok. I do believe the clearance was descend to cross papee at or below 16000 ft then down to 12000 ft. I did realize this but didn't notice right away and when I did, it just did sink in, what the captain was doing. I got busy with other duties and fell a little out of the loop. This could be avoided if all crew members are always kept in the loop and when something doesn't seem right to say something.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF A B737 DELAYED DSCNT DURING A STAR ARR RESULTING IN ATC ADJUSTING THE DSCNT ALT IN ORDER TO BRING RPTR'S ACFT DOWN AT A LATER POINT THAN PLANNED. APCH ACCEPTED THE CAPT'S MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE ALTS TO WHICH ORIGINALLY CLRED BY THE CTR CTLR!
Narrative: THE CAPT WAS FLYING AND I WAS THE PNF, THE FO. ZOA GAVE US THE CLRNC TO CROSS PAPEE AT OR BELOW 16000 FT THEN DOWN TO 12000 FT. I READ BACK THE CLRNC AND PUT 12000 FT IN THE ALT WINDOW. CAPT CONFIRMED. HE STARTED DOWN AND CROSSED PAPEE AT 16000 FT, HE THEN LEVELED OFF AND WAITED TO DSND TO 12000 FT. APPROX 20 MI AFTER PAPEE HE STARTED DOWN. WE THEN WERE SWITCHED TO APCH CTL. I CHKED IN AND WAS TOLD TO DSND TO 8000 FT. I READ THIS BACK. THE CTLR CAME ON AND ASKED ME IF I WAS TOLD TO CROSS PAPEE AT 16000 FT THEN TO 12000 FT. THE CAPT SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS PAPEE AT 16000 FT THEN JAWWS TO 12000 FT. I TOLD THE CTLR THIS AND HE SAID OK. I DO BELIEVE THE CLRNC WAS DSND TO CROSS PAPEE AT OR BELOW 16000 FT THEN DOWN TO 12000 FT. I DID REALIZE THIS BUT DIDN'T NOTICE RIGHT AWAY AND WHEN I DID, IT JUST DID SINK IN, WHAT THE CAPT WAS DOING. I GOT BUSY WITH OTHER DUTIES AND FELL A LITTLE OUT OF THE LOOP. THIS COULD BE AVOIDED IF ALL CREW MEMBERS ARE ALWAYS KEPT IN THE LOOP AND WHEN SOMETHING DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.