 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
A super 80 flies below 8000 ft crossing over fuelr on lax ILS runway 25L approach (583 pt 40).
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 348516 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199609 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| ASRS Report | 348516 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| ASRS Report | 348515 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Time: XX50Z, ATC frequency: 128.5, ATC facility: socal approach, location: approaching fuelr. In cruise, approaching lax, reviewed pertinent information concerning the approach. Flew civet 1 arrival to arnes. At arnes IAF, cleared for the ILS runway 25L and, just like a good pilot would, I engaged the ILS mode on the fmp. We descended on the GS and crossed fuelr below 8000 ft. We then transitioned to GS out procedures until 10 DME and landed normally. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the first officer was doing the flying and felt very busy during this approach. His welcome words as they got closer to lax were, 'cleared for ILS runway 25L approach.' in his mind there was nothing else to do except to follow the localizer and GS to the airport. Cleared for the ILS in his mind meant that all restrs were eliminated. Reporter was counseled as to what the clearance means and what causes the restrs. It seemed to be very enlightening for him. Reporter also felt that a different terminology for the clearance, such as 'comply with all altitudes,' would be a real help to call attention to the fact that altitude restrs are still important and mandatory. Supplemental information from acn 348515: flew civet 1 arrival to arnes. At arnes IAF, cleared for the ILS runway 25L and, just like a thousand times before, engaged the ILS mode. Crossed fuelr below 8000 ft. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the captain's thinking was in complete agreement with the first officer. They were unified in their wrong thinking.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A SUPER 80 FLIES BELOW 8000 FT XING OVER FUELR ON LAX ILS RWY 25L APCH (583 PT 40).
Narrative: TIME: XX50Z, ATC FREQ: 128.5, ATC FACILITY: SOCAL APCH, LOCATION: APCHING FUELR. IN CRUISE, APCHING LAX, REVIEWED PERTINENT INFO CONCERNING THE APCH. FLEW CIVET 1 ARR TO ARNES. AT ARNES IAF, CLRED FOR THE ILS RWY 25L AND, JUST LIKE A GOOD PLT WOULD, I ENGAGED THE ILS MODE ON THE FMP. WE DSNDED ON THE GS AND CROSSED FUELR BELOW 8000 FT. WE THEN TRANSITIONED TO GS OUT PROCS UNTIL 10 DME AND LANDED NORMALLY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE FO WAS DOING THE FLYING AND FELT VERY BUSY DURING THIS APCH. HIS WELCOME WORDS AS THEY GOT CLOSER TO LAX WERE, 'CLRED FOR ILS RWY 25L APCH.' IN HIS MIND THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO EXCEPT TO FOLLOW THE LOC AND GS TO THE ARPT. CLRED FOR THE ILS IN HIS MIND MEANT THAT ALL RESTRS WERE ELIMINATED. RPTR WAS COUNSELED AS TO WHAT THE CLRNC MEANS AND WHAT CAUSES THE RESTRS. IT SEEMED TO BE VERY ENLIGHTENING FOR HIM. RPTR ALSO FELT THAT A DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY FOR THE CLRNC, SUCH AS 'COMPLY WITH ALL ALTS,' WOULD BE A REAL HELP TO CALL ATTN TO THE FACT THAT ALT RESTRS ARE STILL IMPORTANT AND MANDATORY. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 348515: FLEW CIVET 1 ARR TO ARNES. AT ARNES IAF, CLRED FOR THE ILS RWY 25L AND, JUST LIKE A THOUSAND TIMES BEFORE, ENGAGED THE ILS MODE. CROSSED FUELR BELOW 8000 FT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CAPT'S THINKING WAS IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH THE FO. THEY WERE UNIFIED IN THEIR WRONG THINKING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.