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Approach controller did not allow sufficient space for a slow climbing B727-200 during departure climb causing less than standard separation with an unknown aircraft descending for landing. The B727 was at or near gross weight.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 345046 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199608 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ewr |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 1800 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 257 flight time total : 15000 |
| ASRS Report | 345046 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 100 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Departed ewr very heavy B727 -15 power, given left turn 270 degrees at 3 DME ewr. Raised flaps at 1800 ft to 2 degrees, departure 119.2. Advised to 'expedite' through 3000 ft. Turning and flying flaps 2 degrees. Traffic inbound to teb. At 3000 ft, leveled off to accelerate. Controller says 'there you go again' meaning we leveled off. Now we get RA 'check vertical climb.' traffic coming at us for teb, controller upset we are not climbing faster. We get stall shaker twice at full power. This is twice this month (aug/96) that a departure controller has underestimated performance of B727 and caused an unsafe situation by not providing adequate separation. The other situation was departure dca runway 36 IFR, XA00 am in aug/96. We launched dca at 1500 ft, pulled back 1.64 EPR for noise abatement, flying clean man and are heavy. Given 'immediate left turn to 270 degrees for traffic.' stall shaker encountered again. Informed by ATC after asking that a B757 was given takeoff clearance, and was overtaking us -- no kidding. Hope this helps your database. Controllers are misjudging high tech versus low tech aircraft performance for separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: APCH CTLR DID NOT ALLOW SUFFICIENT SPACE FOR A SLOW CLBING B727-200 DURING DEP CLB CAUSING LTSS WITH AN UNKNOWN ACFT DSNDING FOR LNDG. THE B727 WAS AT OR NEAR GROSS WT.
Narrative: DEPARTED EWR VERY HVY B727 -15 PWR, GIVEN L TURN 270 DEGS AT 3 DME EWR. RAISED FLAPS AT 1800 FT TO 2 DEGS, DEP 119.2. ADVISED TO 'EXPEDITE' THROUGH 3000 FT. TURNING AND FLYING FLAPS 2 DEGS. TFC INBOUND TO TEB. AT 3000 FT, LEVELED OFF TO ACCELERATE. CTLR SAYS 'THERE YOU GO AGAIN' MEANING WE LEVELED OFF. NOW WE GET RA 'CHK VERT CLB.' TFC COMING AT US FOR TEB, CTLR UPSET WE ARE NOT CLBING FASTER. WE GET STALL SHAKER TWICE AT FULL PWR. THIS IS TWICE THIS MONTH (AUG/96) THAT A DEP CTLR HAS UNDERESTIMATED PERFORMANCE OF B727 AND CAUSED AN UNSAFE SIT BY NOT PROVIDING ADEQUATE SEPARATION. THE OTHER SIT WAS DEP DCA RWY 36 IFR, XA00 AM IN AUG/96. WE LAUNCHED DCA AT 1500 FT, PULLED BACK 1.64 EPR FOR NOISE ABATEMENT, FLYING CLEAN MAN AND ARE HVY. GIVEN 'IMMEDIATE L TURN TO 270 DEGS FOR TFC.' STALL SHAKER ENCOUNTERED AGAIN. INFORMED BY ATC AFTER ASKING THAT A B757 WAS GIVEN TKOF CLRNC, AND WAS OVERTAKING US -- NO KIDDING. HOPE THIS HELPS YOUR DATABASE. CTLRS ARE MISJUDGING HIGH TECH VERSUS LOW TECH ACFT PERFORMANCE FOR SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.