Narrative:

May/xx/96, I was departing sdl (scottsdale) for 3KM (jarara) in our company's LR35. We were cleared to the banyo 3 departure, zuni transition. Departure was runway 03, which states after takeoff a heading of 260 degrees to intercept the banyo intersection. Thence a radar vector to the pxr 034 degree radial. We were initially cleared to 5000 ft but upon takeoff the tower told us to maintain 4000 ft. After going to phoenix departure I asked for a vector. We were told that at 4000 ft we were too low for radar coverage, as you can imagine there was a bit of confusion. At all times, however, I followed the banyo 3 to the letter. Phx departure asked that I call him upon arrival to jarara which I did, and he would straighten out the confusion! Per our phone discussion I was told that at 4000 ft there was no radar coverage, but at 5000 ft they could pick us up on radar. This seems to me to have serious potential for an accident, since the minimum sector altitude is quite a bit higher than 4000 ft. I might add for good reason! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated during callback when ATC said he was too low for radar identify he advised them that he was complying with his clearance and if they could not identify him at their assigned altitude then the procedure was not safe. Approximately 10 mi northwest of sdl they were climbed to a higher altitude and idented. Prior to changing to ZAB he was asked to call the TRACON supervisor at his destination. The supervisor advised him that the procedure is legal and used when inbound traffic to phx is descending to 5000 ft. He is not convinced that it's safe to bet on the come.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: PLT OF CORPORATE JET WAS ISSUED AN INITIAL ALT RESTR BELOW RADAR COVERAGE BY ATC FOR A SID THAT STATES RADAR AND DME REQUIRED. PLT STATED THAT NAV AND COM WERE NORMAL FOR THE PROC AND THEY WERE CLBED TO A HIGHER ALT AND RADAR IDENTED APPROX 10 MI NW OF SDL.

Narrative: MAY/XX/96, I WAS DEPARTING SDL (SCOTTSDALE) FOR 3KM (JARARA) IN OUR COMPANY'S LR35. WE WERE CLRED TO THE BANYO 3 DEP, ZUNI TRANSITION. DEP WAS RWY 03, WHICH STATES AFTER TKOF A HDG OF 260 DEGS TO INTERCEPT THE BANYO INTXN. THENCE A RADAR VECTOR TO THE PXR 034 DEG RADIAL. WE WERE INITIALLY CLRED TO 5000 FT BUT UPON TKOF THE TWR TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 4000 FT. AFTER GOING TO PHOENIX DEP I ASKED FOR A VECTOR. WE WERE TOLD THAT AT 4000 FT WE WERE TOO LOW FOR RADAR COVERAGE, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE THERE WAS A BIT OF CONFUSION. AT ALL TIMES, HOWEVER, I FOLLOWED THE BANYO 3 TO THE LETTER. PHX DEP ASKED THAT I CALL HIM UPON ARR TO JARARA WHICH I DID, AND HE WOULD STRAIGHTEN OUT THE CONFUSION! PER OUR PHONE DISCUSSION I WAS TOLD THAT AT 4000 FT THERE WAS NO RADAR COVERAGE, BUT AT 5000 FT THEY COULD PICK US UP ON RADAR. THIS SEEMS TO ME TO HAVE SERIOUS POTENTIAL FOR AN ACCIDENT, SINCE THE MINIMUM SECTOR ALT IS QUITE A BIT HIGHER THAN 4000 FT. I MIGHT ADD FOR GOOD REASON! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED DURING CALLBACK WHEN ATC SAID HE WAS TOO LOW FOR RADAR IDENT HE ADVISED THEM THAT HE WAS COMPLYING WITH HIS CLRNC AND IF THEY COULD NOT IDENT HIM AT THEIR ASSIGNED ALT THEN THE PROC WAS NOT SAFE. APPROX 10 MI NW OF SDL THEY WERE CLBED TO A HIGHER ALT AND IDENTED. PRIOR TO CHANGING TO ZAB HE WAS ASKED TO CALL THE TRACON SUPVR AT HIS DEST. THE SUPVR ADVISED HIM THAT THE PROC IS LEGAL AND USED WHEN INBOUND TFC TO PHX IS DSNDING TO 5000 FT. HE IS NOT CONVINCED THAT IT'S SAFE TO BET ON THE COME.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.