Altitude deviation altitude excursion.

Attributes
ACN	295820
Time
Date	199502
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : tvf
State Reference	MN
Altitude	msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 5000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zmp artcc : zny
Operator	general aviation : instructional
Make Model Name	PA-44 Seminole Turbo Seminole
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	cruise other descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	instruction : instructor oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 1700 flight time type : 120
ASRS Report	295820
Person 2
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : single pilot
Qualification	pilot : private
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

On a routine training flight in a piper seminole to practice instrument approachs at a satellite airport (tvf), we were given an IFR clearance to 'maintain 5000 ft, cleared to (IAF) V2IA 12 NM DME arc and inbound on 117 degree radial.' we were not cleared for approach due to company aircraft conducting an approach at the sam airport. Immediately after we read to clearance back the company aircraft reported his missed approach. The student turned onto the arc and began descending to 2700 ft (the altitude published for the arc). After he descended to 4900 ft, I asked him if we were cleared for the approach. He replied that we were. At this point I made several assumptions. We were told to expect approach clearance after company aircraft completed his approach, I heard him call his missed and assumed we were cleared. Student said we were cleared and I thought I missed the radio call clearing us for the approach. I allowed the student to continue. At 4500 ft center asked us to verify our altitude - busted! Reasons; instructor's (me) failure to verify clearance. (You know you're in trouble when you state items such as 'student said' and 'I thought.' assuming the student is right. I violated a cardinal credo for instructors here. Increase communications between instructor, student and controller to assure and not assume critical items such as these are not misunderstood. PIC/instructor must be responsible for creating this environment. Both instructor and student learned a valuable lesson today.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ALTDEV ALT EXCURSION.

Narrative: ON A ROUTINE TRAINING FLT IN A PIPER SEMINOLE TO PRACTICE INSTRUMENT APCHS AT A SATELLITE AIRPORT (TVF), WE WERE GIVEN AN IFR CLRNC TO 'MAINTAIN 5000 FT, CLRED TO (IAF) V2IA 12 NM DME ARC AND INBOUND ON 117 DEG RADIAL.' WE WERE NOT CLRED FOR APCH DUE TO COMPANY ACFT CONDUCTING AN APCH AT THE SAM AIRPORT. IMMEDIATELY AFTER WE READ TO CLRNC BACK THE COMPANY ACFT RPTED HIS MISSED APCH. THE STUDENT TURNED ONTO THE ARC AND BEGAN DSNDING TO 2700 FT (THE ALT PUBLISHED FOR THE ARC). AFTER HE DSNDED TO 4900 FT, I ASKED HIM IF WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH. HE REPLIED THAT WE WERE. AT THIS POINT I MADE SEVERAL ASSUMPTIONS. WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT APCH CLRNC AFTER COMPANY ACFT COMPLETED HIS APCH, I HEARD HIM CALL HIS MISSED AND ASSUMED WE WERE CLRED. STUDENT SAID WE WERE CLRED AND I THOUGHT I MISSED THE RADIO CALL CLRING US FOR THE APCH. I ALLOWED THE STUDENT TO CONTINUE. AT 4500 FT CTR ASKED US TO VERIFY OUR ALT - BUSTED! REASONS; INSTRUCTOR'S (ME) FAILURE TO VERIFY CLRNC. (YOU KNOW YOU'RE IN TROUBLE WHEN YOU STATE ITEMS SUCH AS 'STUDENT SAID' AND 'I THOUGHT.' ASSUMING THE STUDENT IS RIGHT. I VIOLATED A CARDINAL CREDO FOR INSTRUCTORS HERE. INCREASE COMS BTWN INSTRUCTOR, STUDENT AND CTLR TO ASSURE AND NOT ASSUME CRITICAL ITEMS SUCH AS THESE ARE NOT MISUNDERSTOOD. PIC/INSTRUCTOR MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING THIS ENVIRONMENT. BOTH INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON TODAY.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.