Narrative:

On the sunday morning in question, we were issued a clearance by den radio on the rco as follows, 'cleared from the montrose (mtj) airport to the mtj VOR, via the IFR departure procedures.' that is the only part of the clearance in question. For 5 months while the FAA was building a new runway in montrose with an ILS for runway 17/35, they had the VOR OTS. Pilots had been getting in successfully VFR for all that time. Nov/xx/93 the day the new nos plates came out, the WX hit in montrose, and we had a good snow storm. Good planing don't you think? The problem is that the departure procedures are not very specific. They deleted some of the old, while adding procedures for runway 17/35. (Be aware that during the VOR OTS time the active runway for the airport 12/30, had been switched to 13/31.) all the fdc NOTAMS pertaining to the airport were for the old runway 12/30 and on the fdc's read 'IFR approach runway 12 not authority/authorized,' and 'IFR departure not authority/authorized.' we believed that they meant the old plates, since those runways no longer exist. The real problem was when the crew accepted the clearance to the VOR. A clearance we had been issued, and center controllers had been issuing for the 3 yrs I had been flying out of montrose. On climb, the controller asked us, 'how do you interpret the IFR departure procedures?' we replied, 'climb in the published hold to assigned altitude and hold at the mtj VOR as cleared, that's our clearance limit.' the controller, with nothing better to do on a slow sunday morning, proceeded with his questions. 'Well, we don't show a transition back to the VOR anymore, we just wanted to know how you guys interpreted the procedure.' the controller added, 'all we show is V26 towards jnc, just wanted to know how you got back to the VOR.' by now, the 3 ase planes in his sector, listening to this on his frequency, were trying to answer for me on our company frequency. The controller started confusing us, not to mention we are trying to fly the plane in a rocky mountain snow storm. The controller kept asking questions but never asked us to call him. But another controller came on frequency and said, 'what would you do if you were cleared to denver?' I replied, 'climb in the hold the MEA, and depart on course, what would you have me do?' I was getting tired of this interrogation. My plting duties were more important at this point. The only reply was 'we were just wondering how you pilots interpret the procedure, it doesn't seem real clear.' change to another frequency and the rest of the flight was uneventful. When we landed, all the other company pilots that heard this were wondering what was going on. We had a small break, and after some resistance, I was convinced to call ZDV to find out what the heck was going one. There was nothing resolved on the radio, so we thought a phone call in good faith might shed some light. After all, my first officer and I did not think we had done anything wrong, quite the contrary, we generally have a good relationship with ATC, and wanted to keep it that way. We do work together every day. The phone call proved nothing new, except that the controller did seem genuinely unclr about the departure procedure. We are an uncontrolled airport with no radar below about 13000 ft MSL. I said, we pretty much to do the safe thing if you want to stay alive, and the controllers know that. I explained to the supervisor (I think) that a course reversal in the published hold (via a teardrop entry during takeoff) is the safest way to get to my first fix, the only transition that made any sense given the terrain. If it doesn't specify a procedure in the nos, we do whatever we have to to get to the VOR. He read to me the procedure, and said they were going to have a meeting to discuss the new procedure. That's my story, I remember hanging up the phone saying, 'what a nice fed.' the, the paranoia started to set in. Though I still don't believe any regulation was broken, I don't want to be the sacrificial lamb. Pretty stupid system we have between pilots and controllers, but every day that I fly, I try my best to help the system work. If there is something called a 'professional commuter pilot, I am.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: PLT RPTR HAS TOUGH TIME INTERPRETING NEW DEPS AND ARRS AT ARPT.

Narrative: ON THE SUNDAY MORNING IN QUESTION, WE WERE ISSUED A CLRNC BY DEN RADIO ON THE RCO AS FOLLOWS, 'CLRED FROM THE MONTROSE (MTJ) ARPT TO THE MTJ VOR, VIA THE IFR DEP PROCS.' THAT IS THE ONLY PART OF THE CLRNC IN QUESTION. FOR 5 MONTHS WHILE THE FAA WAS BUILDING A NEW RWY IN MONTROSE WITH AN ILS FOR RWY 17/35, THEY HAD THE VOR OTS. PLTS HAD BEEN GETTING IN SUCCESSFULLY VFR FOR ALL THAT TIME. NOV/XX/93 THE DAY THE NEW NOS PLATES CAME OUT, THE WX HIT IN MONTROSE, AND WE HAD A GOOD SNOW STORM. GOOD PLANING DON'T YOU THINK? THE PROB IS THAT THE DEP PROCS ARE NOT VERY SPECIFIC. THEY DELETED SOME OF THE OLD, WHILE ADDING PROCS FOR RWY 17/35. (BE AWARE THAT DURING THE VOR OTS TIME THE ACTIVE RWY FOR THE ARPT 12/30, HAD BEEN SWITCHED TO 13/31.) ALL THE FDC NOTAMS PERTAINING TO THE ARPT WERE FOR THE OLD RWY 12/30 AND ON THE FDC'S READ 'IFR APCH RWY 12 NOT AUTH,' AND 'IFR DEP NOT AUTH.' WE BELIEVED THAT THEY MEANT THE OLD PLATES, SINCE THOSE RWYS NO LONGER EXIST. THE REAL PROB WAS WHEN THE CREW ACCEPTED THE CLRNC TO THE VOR. A CLRNC WE HAD BEEN ISSUED, AND CTR CTLRS HAD BEEN ISSUING FOR THE 3 YRS I HAD BEEN FLYING OUT OF MONTROSE. ON CLB, THE CTLR ASKED US, 'HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THE IFR DEP PROCS?' WE REPLIED, 'CLB IN THE PUBLISHED HOLD TO ASSIGNED ALT AND HOLD AT THE MTJ VOR AS CLRED, THAT'S OUR CLRNC LIMIT.' THE CTLR, WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO ON A SLOW SUNDAY MORNING, PROCEEDED WITH HIS QUESTIONS. 'WELL, WE DON'T SHOW A TRANSITION BACK TO THE VOR ANYMORE, WE JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW YOU GUYS INTERPRETED THE PROC.' THE CTLR ADDED, 'ALL WE SHOW IS V26 TOWARDS JNC, JUST WANTED TO KNOW HOW YOU GOT BACK TO THE VOR.' BY NOW, THE 3 ASE PLANES IN HIS SECTOR, LISTENING TO THIS ON HIS FREQ, WERE TRYING TO ANSWER FOR ME ON OUR COMPANY FREQ. THE CTLR STARTED CONFUSING US, NOT TO MENTION WE ARE TRYING TO FLY THE PLANE IN A ROCKY MOUNTAIN SNOW STORM. THE CTLR KEPT ASKING QUESTIONS BUT NEVER ASKED US TO CALL HIM. BUT ANOTHER CTLR CAME ON FREQ AND SAID, 'WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE CLRED TO DENVER?' I REPLIED, 'CLB IN THE HOLD THE MEA, AND DEPART ON COURSE, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE ME DO?' I WAS GETTING TIRED OF THIS INTERROGATION. MY PLTING DUTIES WERE MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT. THE ONLY REPLY WAS 'WE WERE JUST WONDERING HOW YOU PLTS INTERPRET THE PROC, IT DOESN'T SEEM REAL CLR.' CHANGE TO ANOTHER FREQ AND THE REST OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. WHEN WE LANDED, ALL THE OTHER COMPANY PLTS THAT HEARD THIS WERE WONDERING WHAT WAS GOING ON. WE HAD A SMALL BREAK, AND AFTER SOME RESISTANCE, I WAS CONVINCED TO CALL ZDV TO FIND OUT WHAT THE HECK WAS GOING ONE. THERE WAS NOTHING RESOLVED ON THE RADIO, SO WE THOUGHT A PHONE CALL IN GOOD FAITH MIGHT SHED SOME LIGHT. AFTER ALL, MY FO AND I DID NOT THINK WE HAD DONE ANYTHING WRONG, QUITE THE CONTRARY, WE GENERALLY HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH ATC, AND WANTED TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. WE DO WORK TOGETHER EVERY DAY. THE PHONE CALL PROVED NOTHING NEW, EXCEPT THAT THE CTLR DID SEEM GENUINELY UNCLR ABOUT THE DEP PROC. WE ARE AN UNCTLED ARPT WITH NO RADAR BELOW ABOUT 13000 FT MSL. I SAID, WE PRETTY MUCH TO DO THE SAFE THING IF YOU WANT TO STAY ALIVE, AND THE CTLRS KNOW THAT. I EXPLAINED TO THE SUPVR (I THINK) THAT A COURSE REVERSAL IN THE PUBLISHED HOLD (VIA A TEARDROP ENTRY DURING TKOF) IS THE SAFEST WAY TO GET TO MY FIRST FIX, THE ONLY TRANSITION THAT MADE ANY SENSE GIVEN THE TERRAIN. IF IT DOESN'T SPECIFY A PROC IN THE NOS, WE DO WHATEVER WE HAVE TO TO GET TO THE VOR. HE READ TO ME THE PROC, AND SAID THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE NEW PROC. THAT'S MY STORY, I REMEMBER HANGING UP THE PHONE SAYING, 'WHAT A NICE FED.' THE, THE PARANOIA STARTED TO SET IN. THOUGH I STILL DON'T BELIEVE ANY REG WAS BROKEN, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE SACRIFICIAL LAMB. PRETTY STUPID SYS WE HAVE BTWN PLTS AND CTLRS, BUT EVERY DAY THAT I FLY, I TRY MY BEST TO HELP THE SYS WORK. IF THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED A 'PROFESSIONAL COMMUTER PLT, I AM.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.