Flight crew of an medium large transport air carrier aircraft found that the APU bleed air did not work to start engine and later learned that it had been deferred as 'unusable' but not noted as such in the aircraft maintenance log, nor were there any placards for the flight crew to observe.

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Attributes
ACN	251344
Time
Date	199309
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : tul
State Reference	OK
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	ground : preflight
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 21000 flight time type : 5500
ASRS Report	251344
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 3000
ASRS Report	251582
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : far other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact other other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Aircraft
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

After departing gate at tul, and during left engine start, we were unable to get sufficient APU bleed air for engine start. Requested an air start unit for starting on the tarmac. Completed a normal start and had an uneventful departure. Later, we made an entry in the maintenance log for insufficient APU bleed air for start. We also learned after departure that the APU bleed system had been 'deferred as unusable' by maintenance personnel at tul, but no maintenance log entry to that effect had been made, nor was any crew alert placard documentation made available to the cockpit crew. 'No dmi' information.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC OF AN MLG ACR ACFT FOUND THAT THE APU BLEED AIR DID NOT WORK TO START ENG AND LATER LEARNED THAT IT HAD BEEN DEFERRED AS 'UNUSABLE' BUT NOT NOTED AS SUCH IN THE ACFT MAINT LOG, NOR WERE THERE ANY PLACARDS FOR THE FLC TO OBSERVE.

Narrative: AFTER DEPARTING GATE AT TUL, AND DURING L ENG START, WE WERE UNABLE TO GET SUFFICIENT APU BLEED AIR FOR ENG START. REQUESTED AN AIR START UNIT FOR STARTING ON THE TARMAC. COMPLETED A NORMAL START AND HAD AN UNEVENTFUL DEP. LATER, WE MADE AN ENTRY IN THE MAINT LOG FOR INSUFFICIENT APU BLEED AIR FOR START. WE ALSO LEARNED AFTER DEP THAT THE APU BLEED SYS HAD BEEN 'DEFERRED AS UNUSABLE' BY MAINT PERSONNEL AT TUL, BUT NO MAINT LOG ENTRY TO THAT EFFECT HAD BEEN MADE, NOR WAS ANY CREW ALERT PLACARD DOCUMENTATION MADE AVAILABLE TO THE COCKPIT CREW. 'NO DMI' INFO.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.