 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
After receiving confusing descent clrncs, reporter suggests that charts have the normal crossing altitudes printed on them so the flcs would know what to expect.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 248561 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199308 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : jvl |
| State Reference | WI |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 24000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 248561 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Janesville 2 arrival for ord. In descent FL290, cleared to cross 20 west of janesville at FL240 which with some difficulty was programmed into the FMC, then believe we were told to stay at FL290. Just prior to 20 west of janesville fix, controller told us to descend to FL240. I think we did what we were told, but I'm not sure due to the heavy radio traffic and having to switch to ATIS briefly to copy the information. Due to the very heavy radio traffic and workload going into ord, it's my suggestion that the janesville (and other) arrs show the actual crossing restrictions in frequent use. With FMC we try to wait to descend until the last possible moment. This is to save fuel and time, but limits our ability to adjust to changes. The more we know in advance about altitude restrictions the better we can plan our descent. If we could simply fly a published arrival it would greatly decrease the number of radio xmissions on an already congested frequency, and minimize the possibility of confusion on both sides concerning cleared altitudes and rtes.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AFTER RECEIVING CONFUSING DSCNT CLRNCS, RPTR SUGGESTS THAT CHARTS HAVE THE NORMAL XING ALTS PRINTED ON THEM SO THE FLCS WOULD KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.
Narrative: JANESVILLE 2 ARR FOR ORD. IN DSCNT FL290, CLRED TO CROSS 20 W OF JANESVILLE AT FL240 WHICH WITH SOME DIFFICULTY WAS PROGRAMMED INTO THE FMC, THEN BELIEVE WE WERE TOLD TO STAY AT FL290. JUST PRIOR TO 20 W OF JANESVILLE FIX, CTLR TOLD US TO DSND TO FL240. I THINK WE DID WHAT WE WERE TOLD, BUT I'M NOT SURE DUE TO THE HVY RADIO TFC AND HAVING TO SWITCH TO ATIS BRIEFLY TO COPY THE INFO. DUE TO THE VERY HVY RADIO TFC AND WORKLOAD GOING INTO ORD, IT'S MY SUGGESTION THAT THE JANESVILLE (AND OTHER) ARRS SHOW THE ACTUAL XING RESTRICTIONS IN FREQUENT USE. WITH FMC WE TRY TO WAIT TO DSND UNTIL THE LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT. THIS IS TO SAVE FUEL AND TIME, BUT LIMITS OUR ABILITY TO ADJUST TO CHANGES. THE MORE WE KNOW IN ADVANCE ABOUT ALT RESTRICTIONS THE BETTER WE CAN PLAN OUR DSCNT. IF WE COULD SIMPLY FLY A PUBLISHED ARR IT WOULD GREATLY DECREASE THE NUMBER OF RADIO XMISSIONS ON AN ALREADY CONGESTED FREQ, AND MINIMIZE THE POSSIBILITY OF CONFUSION ON BOTH SIDES CONCERNING CLRED ALTS AND RTES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.