Flight crew of widebody transport on lax loop 7 SID unable to make crossing restriction.

Attributes
ACN	145856
Time
Date	199005
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 14200 msl bound upper : 15000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	departure sid : sid
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 15500 flight time type : 1400
ASRS Report	145856
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 215 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 2200
ASRS Report	145956
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

In the loop 7 SID out of lax there are 3 crossing restrictions. In the process of making the first 2 crossing restrictions we had to climb at low airspeed (250 KTS). After the second crossing restriction we were instructed by ATC to resume normal airspeed. In order to accelerate we had to decrease rate of climb such that we were 800' low at the third crossing restriction. We should have placed the crossing restriction ahead of the need to accelerate. Contributing factor: dag DME OTS and not notamed, nor were pilots informed of this fact by ATC until ATC was queried by pilots (us). Departure controllers tend to turn aircraft back toward the lax VOR too soon. The second crossing restriction taxes the performance limit of the widebody transport and should be changed. Also the fact that there are 3 crossing restrictions (2 of which are tough to make) between 10000 and 15000', all within a 20 mi span creates a lot of heads down time checking forward speed and climb rate against the crossing restriction. There's got to be a better way to get aft out of the lax area than the loop 7 SID.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLT CREW OF WDB ON LAX LOOP 7 SID UNABLE TO MAKE CROSSING RESTRICTION.

Narrative: IN THE LOOP 7 SID OUT OF LAX THERE ARE 3 XING RESTRICTIONS. IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE FIRST 2 XING RESTRICTIONS WE HAD TO CLB AT LOW AIRSPD (250 KTS). AFTER THE SECOND XING RESTRICTION WE WERE INSTRUCTED BY ATC TO RESUME NORMAL AIRSPD. IN ORDER TO ACCELERATE WE HAD TO DECREASE RATE OF CLB SUCH THAT WE WERE 800' LOW AT THE THIRD XING RESTRICTION. WE SHOULD HAVE PLACED THE XING RESTRICTION AHEAD OF THE NEED TO ACCELERATE. CONTRIBUTING FACTOR: DAG DME OTS AND NOT NOTAMED, NOR WERE PLTS INFORMED OF THIS FACT BY ATC UNTIL ATC WAS QUERIED BY PLTS (US). DEP CTLRS TEND TO TURN ACFT BACK TOWARD THE LAX VOR TOO SOON. THE SECOND XING RESTRICTION TAXES THE PERFORMANCE LIMIT OF THE WDB AND SHOULD BE CHANGED. ALSO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE 3 XING RESTRICTIONS (2 OF WHICH ARE TOUGH TO MAKE) BTWN 10000 AND 15000', ALL WITHIN A 20 MI SPAN CREATES A LOT OF HEADS DOWN TIME CHKING FORWARD SPD AND CLB RATE AGAINST THE XING RESTRICTION. THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER WAY TO GET AFT OUT OF THE LAX AREA THAN THE LOOP 7 SID.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.