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Reporter considers civet profile descent into lax dangerous. Considers the fillmore to lax descent requires too much cockpit attention.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 127705 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198911 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival : profile descent enroute airway : zla |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 23000 |
| ASRS Report | 127705 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
The civet 1 procedure is commonly flown in VFR conditions in a see-and-be-seen environment. However, the restrictions on the profile require two pilots to devote their full attention inside the cockpit! It is just a matter of time before someone has a midair collision while flying this profile. Flying the glide slope on the descent would eliminate the need for the restrictions at arnes, suzzy and fueler on the profile and also take care of the restriction at the 21 DME once cleared for the ILS. This would allow the crew to keep a watch for VFR traffic. In my opinion, this is a dangerous procedure. The 24/25 profile from the fillmore VOR also has restrictions that call for a lot of cockpit attention. I consider the potential for midair collision to be the most hazardous situation we face today. Our ATC system is not doing anything to lessen that danger with these procedures.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: REPORTER CONSIDERS CIVET PROFILE DESCENT INTO LAX DANGEROUS. CONSIDERS THE FILLMORE TO LAX DESCENT REQUIRES TOO MUCH COCKPIT ATTENTION.
Narrative: THE CIVET 1 PROC IS COMMONLY FLOWN IN VFR CONDITIONS IN A SEE-AND-BE-SEEN ENVIRONMENT. HOWEVER, THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE PROFILE REQUIRE TWO PLTS TO DEVOTE THEIR FULL ATTN INSIDE THE COCKPIT! IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEONE HAS A MIDAIR COLLISION WHILE FLYING THIS PROFILE. FLYING THE GLIDE SLOPE ON THE DSCNT WOULD ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR THE RESTRICTIONS AT ARNES, SUZZY AND FUELER ON THE PROFILE AND ALSO TAKE CARE OF THE RESTRICTION AT THE 21 DME ONCE CLRED FOR THE ILS. THIS WOULD ALLOW THE CREW TO KEEP A WATCH FOR VFR TFC. IN MY OPINION, THIS IS A DANGEROUS PROC. THE 24/25 PROFILE FROM THE FILLMORE VOR ALSO HAS RESTRICTIONS THAT CALL FOR A LOT OF COCKPIT ATTN. I CONSIDER THE POTENTIAL FOR MIDAIR COLLISION TO BE THE MOST HAZARDOUS SITUATION WE FACE TODAY. OUR ATC SYSTEM IS NOT DOING ANYTHING TO LESSEN THAT DANGER WITH THESE PROCS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.