Narrative:

On an instrument flight for final preparation for an FAA instrument flight test, I took my student to davison aaf to practice the isl runway 32. I almost never go to davison for training but I have heard the pilot examiners are all using the approach so I thought the student should have some exposure to it prior to the test. We approached from the south and reported to washington approach, level 2000, inbound to irons intersection northbound on V376. Approach assigned us a discrete code to squawk, gave a slight turn westerly (heading about 350), told us to maintain 2000 and standby. After a slight delay the controller radar identified us slightly north of irons. The controller then stated we were so close to davison, that we should switch to davison approach (on a frequency not shown on the approach plate). We switched to the frequency and had to call twice about 20 seconds between calls. The controller then requested our call sign again, altitude, position and request. My student said call sign, level 2000, about 3 mi north of irons requesting ILS 32. The controller then said he was going to give us turns for radar identification. It was obvious to me that there had been no coordination between washington and davison about us. I quickly told the student to tell the controller we were assigned a discrete code (my student read it to davison and we were level 2000 as assigned). The controller still wanted a turn left to 270 for identification, the student read back the instruction 'left 270 maintain 2000'. There was no correction. We started the wbound turn. In the turn the controller stated 'radar contact' and informed us that we had traffic, as we roll out we would see it 10 to 11 O'clock 1 mile, type and altitude unknown. As we were rolling out I saw a medium twin turboprop, high wing, t-tail commuter airliner (airline unknown) northbound about on our altitude. I would estimate about 250-300 KT closure speed. I told the student to roll left, he started to say something about the controller saying heading 270. I overpwred him on the controls and rolled into about a 60 degree left bank losing about 150' in the turn. In the turn we advised we had the traffic and were making a left 360 for flight crew avoidance. On discussion of this event with another instructor, who had just passed his CFI-ai test, he stated that a similar event occurred during his flight test. When he was handed off to davison, he was told to maintain 2000 in his clearance. The examiner, a retired airline captain, was assigned to washington national for years said that the clearance was wrong, get an amended clearance now for 1500 (they had no traffic conflict). I never received a clearance down to procedure turn altitude of 1500 until we rolled out of the 360. I believe we could have been better served with more coordination by ATC or if davison were shown as the responsible approach facility on the approach plate (government FLIP). Also I could have questioned the controller about turns across the approach path to national as I knew national and andrews were both in a north operation, but I considered the readback without correction sufficient in a controled environment. I also don't understand the radar identification turns to the west unless it has something to do with the TCA floor (2500 decreasing to 1500 nearby) or the location of P73 which forbids operation below 1500.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: SMA TRAINER IN IDENTIFICATION TURN HAD NMAC WITH HIGH WIND TURBO ACR.

Narrative: ON AN INSTRUMENT FLT FOR FINAL PREPARATION FOR AN FAA INSTRUMENT FLT TEST, I TOOK MY STUDENT TO DAVISON AAF TO PRACTICE THE ISL RWY 32. I ALMOST NEVER GO TO DAVISON FOR TRAINING BUT I HAVE HEARD THE PLT EXAMINERS ARE ALL USING THE APCH SO I THOUGHT THE STUDENT SHOULD HAVE SOME EXPOSURE TO IT PRIOR TO THE TEST. WE APCHED FROM THE SOUTH AND REPORTED TO WASHINGTON APCH, LEVEL 2000, INBOUND TO IRONS INTXN NBOUND ON V376. APCH ASSIGNED US A DISCRETE CODE TO SQUAWK, GAVE A SLIGHT TURN WESTERLY (HDG ABOUT 350), TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 2000 AND STANDBY. AFTER A SLIGHT DELAY THE CTLR RADAR IDENTIFIED US SLIGHTLY N OF IRONS. THE CTLR THEN STATED WE WERE SO CLOSE TO DAVISON, THAT WE SHOULD SWITCH TO DAVISON APCH (ON A FREQ NOT SHOWN ON THE APCH PLATE). WE SWITCHED TO THE FREQ AND HAD TO CALL TWICE ABOUT 20 SECONDS BETWEEN CALLS. THE CTLR THEN REQUESTED OUR CALL SIGN AGAIN, ALT, POSITION AND REQUEST. MY STUDENT SAID CALL SIGN, LEVEL 2000, ABOUT 3 MI N OF IRONS REQUESTING ILS 32. THE CTLR THEN SAID HE WAS GOING TO GIVE US TURNS FOR RADAR IDENTIFICATION. IT WAS OBVIOUS TO ME THAT THERE HAD BEEN NO COORD BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND DAVISON ABOUT US. I QUICKLY TOLD THE STUDENT TO TELL THE CTLR WE WERE ASSIGNED A DISCRETE CODE (MY STUDENT READ IT TO DAVISON AND WE WERE LEVEL 2000 AS ASSIGNED). THE CTLR STILL WANTED A TURN LEFT TO 270 FOR IDENTIFICATION, THE STUDENT READ BACK THE INSTRUCTION 'LEFT 270 MAINTAIN 2000'. THERE WAS NO CORRECTION. WE STARTED THE WBOUND TURN. IN THE TURN THE CTLR STATED 'RADAR CONTACT' AND INFORMED US THAT WE HAD TFC, AS WE ROLL OUT WE WOULD SEE IT 10 TO 11 O'CLOCK 1 MILE, TYPE AND ALT UNKNOWN. AS WE WERE ROLLING OUT I SAW A MEDIUM TWIN TURBOPROP, HIGH WING, T-TAIL COMMUTER AIRLINER (AIRLINE UNKNOWN) NBOUND ABOUT ON OUR ALT. I WOULD ESTIMATE ABOUT 250-300 KT CLOSURE SPEED. I TOLD THE STUDENT TO ROLL LEFT, HE STARTED TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE CTLR SAYING HEADING 270. I OVERPWRED HIM ON THE CONTROLS AND ROLLED INTO ABOUT A 60 DEG LEFT BANK LOSING ABOUT 150' IN THE TURN. IN THE TURN WE ADVISED WE HAD THE TFC AND WERE MAKING A LEFT 360 FOR FLT CREW AVOIDANCE. ON DISCUSSION OF THIS EVENT WITH ANOTHER INSTRUCTOR, WHO HAD JUST PASSED HIS CFI-AI TEST, HE STATED THAT A SIMILAR EVENT OCCURRED DURING HIS FLT TEST. WHEN HE WAS HANDED OFF TO DAVISON, HE WAS TOLD TO MAINTAIN 2000 IN HIS CLRNC. THE EXAMINER, A RETIRED AIRLINE CAPT, WAS ASSIGNED TO WASHINGTON NATIONAL FOR YEARS SAID THAT THE CLRNC WAS WRONG, GET AN AMENDED CLRNC NOW FOR 1500 (THEY HAD NO TFC CONFLICT). I NEVER RECEIVED A CLRNC DOWN TO PROC TURN ALT OF 1500 UNTIL WE ROLLED OUT OF THE 360. I BELIEVE WE COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SERVED WITH MORE COORD BY ATC OR IF DAVISON WERE SHOWN AS THE RESPONSIBLE APCH FAC ON THE APCH PLATE (GOVERNMENT FLIP). ALSO I COULD HAVE QUESTIONED THE CTLR ABOUT TURNS ACROSS THE APCH PATH TO NATIONAL AS I KNEW NATIONAL AND ANDREWS WERE BOTH IN A NORTH OPERATION, BUT I CONSIDERED THE READBACK WITHOUT CORRECTION SUFFICIENT IN A CTLED ENVIRONMENT. I ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RADAR IDENTIFICATION TURNS TO THE WEST UNLESS IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE TCA FLOOR (2500 DECREASING TO 1500 NEARBY) OR THE LOCATION OF P73 WHICH FORBIDS OPERATION BELOW 1500.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.